Reply to: Rate Negotiations Advice

[quackhandle]

Me: What is the the role paying?

Pimp: Market rate. What is your daily rate?

Me: You tell me what you think market rate is, and see if we agree.


Sometimes I agree (v rare) and sometimes I don't as they are waaaaay off the mark.

qh

[jmo21]

Its luck sometimes.

An agent called me once and asked my rate. I said £X.

He said "oh we can get your £X+50". I got the role. I was at client Z for 18 months.

Finished up, started new contract. 6 months later as that was almost up, the old client boss at Z calls me. Straight offer, same rate, happy days, but needs to be new agent, "I'll get them to call you".

New agent calls, rate is £(X+50)+50..... me: sounds good!

[TheDude]

Ask the agent via email. Nowadays most agents are on a fixed percentage and they'll generally happily tell you as there is nothing to hide. In fact it's in their best interests to disclose as it will stop contractors coming back and trying to negotiate. If it's a fixed percentage across the board then there is next to no room to negotiate. It's not like the old days where the agent could name their rate and rip the contractor off.

It's close to the first thing I ask when applying for a gig. Are you on a fixed percentage with the client and if they say yes then no need to go down the negotiation route. I can't remember an agent that hasn't told me when they are on fixed and I ask. If they start umming and ahhing then there is a chance they are setting their own commission and an attempt at negotiating a better rate at some point is on the cards.

I say ask by email as they are less likely to lie if it's written down.

I never thought of asking - I just assumed I wouldn't get a straight answer.

However in this market maybe it just isn't worth asking irritating questions when there is a long queue of people looking for work.

[northernladuk]

So how do you keep an eye on commission rates then?

Ask the agent via email. Nowadays most agents are on a fixed percentage and they'll generally happily tell you as there is nothing to hide. In fact it's in their best interests to disclose as it will stop contractors coming back and trying to negotiate. If it's a fixed percentage across the board then there is next to no room to negotiate. It's not like the old days where the agent could name their rate and rip the contractor off.

It's close to the first thing I ask when applying for a gig. Are you on a fixed percentage with the client and if they say yes then no need to go down the negotiation route. I can't remember an agent that hasn't told me when they are on fixed and I ask. If they start umming and ahhing then there is a chance they are setting their own commission and an attempt at negotiating a better rate at some point is on the cards.

I say ask by email as they are less likely to lie if it's written down.

[TheDude]

Until the client starts wondering why they're paying £2x for a contractor who only appears to be providing £1x of value (because that's their rate).

Keeping an eye on commission rates is definitely worth doing.

So how do you keep an eye on commission rates then?

[malvolio]

Late to this thread but if the client is who i think it is they have a strict rate card. Negotitions are very limited...

[ladymuck]

I'm with many of the comments above. My day rate fluctuates quite a lot between one contract and the next. All I ask myself is (a) do I want the job / does it seem interesting, and (b) will the rate cover my living costs with some left over for a rainy day.

If yes to both then I don't lose much sleep over it.

[Ketto]

Until the client starts wondering why they're paying £2x for a contractor who only appears to be providing £1x of value (because that's their rate).

Keeping an eye on commission rates is definitely worth doing.

Same with Inside roles..... "He's on £1,000 a day!" when half of it goes to Hector.

[Snooky]

Contractors have driven themselves to madness speculating on what sort of haircut their agent is applying.

Worry about what is going in your pocket rather than worrying about what is going (or what you think is going) into other peoples pockets. Rock the boat too much and they will find someone else.

Until the client starts wondering why they're paying £2x for a contractor who only appears to be providing £1x of value (because that's their rate).

Keeping an eye on commission rates is definitely worth doing.

[Dorkeaux]

I've always asked for the top of the range and it has seemed to work.
The client has a budget and the agency will get their margin. There's a chance that if you go in low, the agency will simply take more of a margin.
Anyway, psychologically, expensive things are generally perceived to be of higher value - reassuringly expensive :-)

This is very true.
Someone is getting the higher rates, it might as well be you.

The dynamic is that as the rates are on a bell curve, the higher-paying roles are thinner on the ground.
So, a numbers game (as I keep saying).
If you have a war chest, and offset the time to obtain the upper rates against the total coming in over the year, add in what it looks like having a gap.. you find a balance.

I find the day rate isn't just money. It's about the value and respect that is associated with the role, and to you.
Like Smartie said.
If you doubt this, try doing pro bono work or give a rate discount and see how well you are treated.

[Smartie]

I've always asked for the top of the range and it has seemed to work.
The client has a budget and the agency will get their margin. There's a chance that if you go in low, the agency will simply take more of a margin.
Anyway, psychologically, expensive things are generally perceived to be of higher value - reassuringly expensive :-)

[TheDude]

Contractors have driven themselves to madness speculating on what sort of haircut their agent is applying.

Worry about what is going in your pocket rather than worrying about what is going (or what you think is going) into other peoples pockets. Rock the boat too much and they will find someone else.

[fatJock]

Personally I think it's mostly irrelevant with the key thing being ...."am I happy with the rate I'm getting and does it reflect market rate?".

Agencies have to make a margin and, anyone thinking they're working for contractors needs to give their head a wobble.

[Dorkeaux]

btw, I wouldn't play this game with a client. I guess it's worth learning to see that agents are not clients. They're the middlemen who - in an ideal world - would actually represent the contractor's interest. But they don't.

I almost spat out my Horlicks..

In our industry agents do _not_ work for you, nor represent your interests.
They are employed by, or are trying to be employed by the end clients.
Their money comes from the client, not you.

The agents might try to make it sound like they have your interests at heart to make you more compliant. That's all.

[t0bytoo]

I don't specifically commit to the rate. I say something along the lines of "that's fine". A week later, there might be other opportunities and you can say, "well, the market is looking a bit better now".
The agents will be playing all kinds of games so it's okay to be a bit vague. if someone asks "what's your rate", I usually say "market rate".

btw, I wouldn't play this game with a client. I guess it's worth learning to see that agents are not clients. They're the middlemen who - in an ideal world - would actually represent the contractor's interest. But they don't.