Working hours and IR35

[Ketto]

Good evening.

My contract has been deemed to be outside IR35.
My team lead is very anal about working times and checks if we start and finish on time. Does this not make it an Inside IR35 role then?

Sounds like a pain in the neck, who will likely be a pain in the neck in a multitude of other ways (holidays, personal appointments etc) if they are like this from the get go. It's not a positive from IR35 as you are not in control of your own working hours, but i'd see it as more of a personal aggravation as being micro-managed is so draining - as others have suggested hopefully it is a short term initial problem, but if it is the norm still after a few months I wouldn't be looking to make it a long engagement.

[sadkingbilly]

Isn't that just another way to say they're talking out of their @rse?

or they're a PM.

[Snooky]

verbally anal (is that a thing?)

Isn't that just another way to say they're talking out of their @rse?

[willendure]

Notwithstanding all the above. A team lead who treats their team like children is not one I'd consider working with for any longer than necessary.

Its also entirely possible the OP never met the team lead prior to starting the work - or only met them very briefly under interview conditions. In this market you might get interviewed by a hiring manager, never meet the team, get offered the job, and knowing how hard it is to find one, end up saying yes. Only later do you find out how anal they are and what a mistake you have made but whatever, you need the cash so...

If its just a team lead being verbally anal (is that a thing?) its not a problem. They will probably relax in a few weeks if they see that you are doing good work. If I was hiring a contractor I would keep them on a tight leash at the start to make sure I am getting good value for what I am paying them.

[SussexSeagull]

It’s an indicator which would be taken into account with several other factors.

in the days before WFH was a widespread thing I worked at offices that were physically only open from about 0800 to 1800 so you didn’t really have much choice in working hours.

[WTFH]

My team lead is very anal about working times and checks if we start and finish on time. Does this not make it an Inside IR35 role then?

Are you on an hourly rate or a daily rate?
If you're on an hourly rate, I can understand why someone managing the costs might get annoyed if you work long hours and bill for them.
If you're on a daily rate, in the old days we had the concept of a professional working day which was normally around 8-9 hours. If most of the team switch their computers on at 08:30 and off at around 17:30, but one person switches on at 09:15 and off at 17:00 on the dot, no matter what they are working on, then I wouldn't be surprised at a team lead being a bit anal with that person. If I'm working on something that takes me until 17:45 or 18:00 to finish, so it's done and out of the way, then I'll work that bit later. I'm not a clock watcher, and on days when I finish closer to 17:00 there's no issue as the leads can see that work has been done and they know that they'll be getting 8-9hours per day out of me.

[ladymuck]

Having someone anal about working hours isn't, on its own, that big a deal. You do need to look at the overall working practices and consider whether the level of control being exercised is cause for concern.

It might be worth mentioning to whoever arranged the contract (if not the team lead) that there is a potential liability risk to their company due to the way this person is running the team.

[Dorkeaux]

Don't wish to be rude but bearing in mind this is your job how do you not know enough about IR35 to make this call? I know the burden has been passed on to whoever provides the SDS but that's still no excuse to understand the basics of what you do and how.

Playing tickbox IR35 with zero understanding is a really poor way to run your business.

The OP is floating a simple question to start a discussion and improve their knowledge.
They weren't really asking to be tuliped on because their level of IR35 knowledge isn't the equal of yours, or because their business isn't run to your standards.

[sadkingbilly]

Don't wish to be rude but....... .

[northernladuk]

Good evening.

My contract has been deemed to be outside IR35.
My team lead is very anal about working times and checks if we start and finish on time. Does this not make it an Inside IR35 role then?

Don't wish to be rude but bearing in mind this is your job how do you not know enough about IR35 to make this call? I know the burden has been passed on to whoever provides the SDS but that's still no excuse to understand the basics of what you do and how.

Playing tickbox IR35 with zero understanding is a really poor way to run your business.

[sadkingbilly]

Notwithstanding all the above. A team lead who treats their team like children is not one I'd consider working with.

FTFY

[ladymuck]

Notwithstanding all the above. A team lead who treats their team like children is not one I'd consider working with for any longer than necessary.

[Protagoras]

Guessing that you're concerned that the team leader's behaviour implies a level of 'control'.
Many clients have defined working hours for reasons of H&S, security etc.
Unless there's some recent ruling on this, historically defined working hours was not considered in itself an 'inside' indication.

Perhaps you'd give us some more information about the bigger picture for context ...

(a) Is this a Ch.10 engagement?
(b) Have you been formally issued with an 'outside' SDS ?
(c) What does the B2B contract say about working hours?
(d) Have you received your first payment for work under the contract?

[Destiny2]

Good evening.

My contract has been deemed to be outside IR35.
My team lead is very anal about working times and checks if we start and finish on time. Does this not make it an Inside IR35 role then?