Working hours and IR35

[Destiny2]

Good evening.

My contract has been deemed to be outside IR35.
My team lead is very anal about working times and checks if we start and finish on time. Does this not make it an Inside IR35 role then?

[Protagoras]

Guessing that you're concerned that the team leader's behaviour implies a level of 'control'.
Many clients have defined working hours for reasons of H&S, security etc.
Unless there's some recent ruling on this, historically defined working hours was not considered in itself an 'inside' indication.

Perhaps you'd give us some more information about the bigger picture for context ...

(a) Is this a Ch.10 engagement?
(b) Have you been formally issued with an 'outside' SDS ?
(c) What does the B2B contract say about working hours?
(d) Have you received your first payment for work under the contract?

[ladymuck]

Notwithstanding all the above. A team lead who treats their team like children is not one I'd consider working with for any longer than necessary.

[sadkingbilly]

Notwithstanding all the above. A team lead who treats their team like children is not one I'd consider working with.

FTFY

[northernladuk]

Good evening.

My contract has been deemed to be outside IR35.
My team lead is very anal about working times and checks if we start and finish on time. Does this not make it an Inside IR35 role then?

Don't wish to be rude but bearing in mind this is your job how do you not know enough about IR35 to make this call? I know the burden has been passed on to whoever provides the SDS but that's still no excuse to understand the basics of what you do and how.

Playing tickbox IR35 with zero understanding is a really poor way to run your business.

[sadkingbilly]

Don't wish to be rude but....... .

[Dorkeaux]

Don't wish to be rude but bearing in mind this is your job how do you not know enough about IR35 to make this call? I know the burden has been passed on to whoever provides the SDS but that's still no excuse to understand the basics of what you do and how.

Playing tickbox IR35 with zero understanding is a really poor way to run your business.

The OP is floating a simple question to start a discussion and improve their knowledge.
They weren't really asking to be tuliped on because their level of IR35 knowledge isn't the equal of yours, or because their business isn't run to your standards.

[ladymuck]

Having someone anal about working hours isn't, on its own, that big a deal. You do need to look at the overall working practices and consider whether the level of control being exercised is cause for concern.

It might be worth mentioning to whoever arranged the contract (if not the team lead) that there is a potential liability risk to their company due to the way this person is running the team.

[WTFH]

My team lead is very anal about working times and checks if we start and finish on time. Does this not make it an Inside IR35 role then?

Are you on an hourly rate or a daily rate?
If you're on an hourly rate, I can understand why someone managing the costs might get annoyed if you work long hours and bill for them.
If you're on a daily rate, in the old days we had the concept of a professional working day which was normally around 8-9 hours. If most of the team switch their computers on at 08:30 and off at around 17:30, but one person switches on at 09:15 and off at 17:00 on the dot, no matter what they are working on, then I wouldn't be surprised at a team lead being a bit anal with that person. If I'm working on something that takes me until 17:45 or 18:00 to finish, so it's done and out of the way, then I'll work that bit later. I'm not a clock watcher, and on days when I finish closer to 17:00 there's no issue as the leads can see that work has been done and they know that they'll be getting 8-9hours per day out of me.

[SussexSeagull]

It’s an indicator which would be taken into account with several other factors.

in the days before WFH was a widespread thing I worked at offices that were physically only open from about 0800 to 1800 so you didn’t really have much choice in working hours.