Reply to: Poll: Is coding still a viable profession?

[willendure]

He gets top marks in Physics but has never really shown much interest in Engineering. I think AI would be of interest but probably only after he's done a Maths degree as that's really where his talent and passion are.

The great thing about both Maths and Physics is, they don't commit you to any particular path, and there are a lot of things you can do with them. My son also has no idea what he wants to really do - except become a premier league footballer and I think that ship has sailed many years ago!

[willendure]

oh, aye. we had inside toilets tae

Posh git!

Funny story, when I was a student I went into a bank in Berwick Upon Tweed (arse end of nowhere) to open an account. The lady on the desk instead of asking my phone number enquired "are you on the telephone?", to which I replied "yes, and we have an indoor loo too!".

[edison]

There is something about that on the H1B Visas thread. In the linked article: https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/...b_job_lottery/

"In 2023, American colleges graduated 134,153 citizens or green card holders with bachelor's or master's degrees in computer science," Lynn wrote.

"That same year, our federal government handed out work permits to at least 110,098 foreign workers in computer occupations through just three major guest worker programs. That's equal to 82 percent of our graduating class who are guaranteed jobs even before any Americans walk across the stage for their diploma."

It seems like multiple factors at play - cheaper labour undercutting home grown, a glut of graduates since the profession was well paid and a lot of people wanted to get in, post covid lay-offs in tech, end of cheap money... The dynamics are hard to interpret as to whether this is a cyclic thing or more permanent shift.

Your son could consider also Engineering or Physics or AI? My boy will be making deicisons around higher education in the next year or so with similar choices to make.

He gets top marks in Physics but has never really shown much interest in Engineering. I think AI would be of interest but probably only after he's done a Maths degree as that's really where his talent and passion are.

[sadkingbilly]

MechE? Not even Electrical Engineering? I don't know how old you are, but I would like to ask - had the electronic valve been invented yet, when you started out?

oh, aye. we had inside toilets tae

[willendure]

my degree is MechE, there were no IT courses when i started oldgit:

MechE? Not even Electrical Engineering? I don't know how old you are, but I would like to ask - had the electronic valve been invented yet, when you started out?

[sadkingbilly]

my degree is MechE, there were no IT courses when i started oldgit:

[NotAllThere]

Me too! What a waste of time that was.

They also decided to switch the intro programming course from C++ to Pascal because "our job is to teach you, not provide skills that industry requires".
Did the final project in C++ anyway.

When I did my degree C++ hadn't been invented.

[Smartie]

In my CompSci undergrad degree, I did a module about formal specification in Z. The theory was that you could define what the program was supposed to do, rather than how it was supposed to do it.

Me too! What a waste of time that was.

They also decided to switch the intro programming course from C++ to Pascal because "our job is to teach you, not provide skills that industry requires".
Did the final project in C++ anyway.

[NotAllThere]

In my CompSci undergrad degree, I did a module about formal specification.

Thanks. I've been trying to forget about that for nearly 40 years...

[willendure]

These specification languages are not mainstream but I have heard stories of people using them with gen AI - describing scenarios in words and having AI turn that into formal specifications. Alloy executable specifications might be a good one for testing generated code against.

[hobnob]

Any program is a specification, just very precise. Since you need to give an AI a tight spec, effectively the spec becomes the programming language. People who are crap at coding won't be able specify well enough. So the idea that execs will simply tell an AI what they want and it'll go away and code it is just fantasy. At least for the next ten years.

In my CompSci undergrad degree, I did a module about formal specification in Z. The theory was that you could define what the program was supposed to do, rather than how it was supposed to do it.

E.g. the Z spec for a square root function would be something like this:

sqrt(x) = y, where y * y = x

(Not actual syntax.)

The implementation would be a couple of pages long, using something like the Newton-Raphson method.

However, I've never come across anyone using that in business. I heard about one (possibly apocryphal) case where the military decided to use a Z spec for their missile guidance system. The result was a shelf full of bound volumes, and the general basically said "How do you expect me to approve that?"

I agree with NAT that the vibe coders are unlikely to give a rigorous spec to the AI.

[willendure]

I would say though, that AI can be very useful in writing requirements docs and technical specs. I have one GPT that I found called "Cloud Architect Pro" which has been absolultely spot-on for generating accurate design recommendations for AWS. It has output examples for me in CDK or Terraform, or written them up in English for inclusion in technical design docs. Huge time saver.

The way I see gen AI is its like an extension of your left brain. The left hemisphere is more concerned with tool oriented thinking, or fulfilling tasks, language and use of hands and its reward mechanism is dopamine driven. The right side is more concerned with awareness and pattern matching and can deal with multiple conflicting ideas at once and its reward mechanism is more adrenachrome or some kind of adrenaline derivative. Left side gets dopamine fatigue and right side does not.

AI is not conscious or aware, but it is getting good at the language/tool-oriented stuff.

[willendure]

Any program is a specification, just very precise. Since you need to give an AI a tight spec, effectively the spec becomes the programming language. People who are crap at coding won't be able specify well enough. So the idea that execs will simply tell an AI what they want and it'll go away and code it is just fantasy. At least for the next ten years.

Funny. Current PM has failed to organize the business requirements and high level design for our next piece of work, which means that the schedule to complete it is now very tight. He threatened the dev team with having to take the work to an external supplier in order to get it done in time. Obviously the first thing the external supplier is going to ask for is the f'ing spec, which is the whole reason for the delay. Jesus wept.

[willendure]

Any good developer knows that when you are dealing with currencies you must use a Decimal implementation, and give consideration to the number of decimal places needed and how rounding is handled.

[jamesbrown]

But it was my fault for not making it clear.

It could've been worse, they might have entered the weight in lbs of one euro coins.