Reply to: Billing before the start of contract

[NotAllThere]

Nice! From Roger Sinclair, no less.

I met him once. I felt like I was in the presence of royalty.

[SussexSeagull]

As said elsewhere, if they want their laptop box they can send someone to collect it.

[jamesbrown]

I've just seen that there's a response to this (from a legal adviser) over on the "main" ContractorUK site:
Can I invoice before the start of a contract?

Nice! From Roger Sinclair, no less.

[hobnob]

I've just seen that there's a response to this (from a legal adviser) over on the "main" ContractorUK site:
Can I invoice before the start of a contract?

[Protagoras]

If there's no contract, I'd not be offering to do anything to return the client's laptop without being paid for the time and expense.

If the client wants the laptop, the client can arrange collection.

[b0redom]

Pretty sure the OP is trolling, but if not, the client must be a 'small' consultancy. Virtually none of the big ones are engaging pub sector gigs outside IR35.

Call up the agency and ask what the status of the contract is. Do not hide behind/let them hide behind email. At the same time.....

E-mail the consultancy and ask tell them your insurance does not cover you without a contract in place, and you will, unfortunately, be unable to continue to do anything until there is a contract in place. Ask them where they want you to return your laptop to. Copy in the agent.

You're operating a business, this really is business 101 stuff.

[willendure]

I got a contract with govt client though agency and then consulting company outside IR35. They took 4 month since start of the process and I am still not onboarded and contract is still not handed. Client supplied their laptop to start some of onboarding steps and its like 1 month I am spending full time into this because their PMO team is very slow and not responsive and wasting my time. Not sure when it will start (or whether it will start). So what are my rights if it all ended with no contract and no work. I spent 1 month on client laptop raising various requests, responding to emails, chasing people to get completion of raised requests etc. And this is all in client laptop. Should I ask to get paid and can I deny to return laptop unless not paid. Please suggest.

I would say its time to get onto the agency or consulting company with an ultimatum to get the contract sorted.

[WTFH]

And they already doing things illegally. Why they gave laptop and asked to perform activities when no contract in place?

Sending you a laptop and asking you to do things before a contract is in place is not illegal.
You are under no obligation to perform any activities until a contract is in place, but that does not mean they can't send stuff to you.

Client has only way to communicate is through their laptop and I am not yet obliged to keep it on and keep checking their emails. And in the absence of contract not obliged to respond to agency through my personal email.

You should not be communicating (much) with the client without a contract.
Things you could communicate with them:
1. Your address for sending stuff
2. When you receive that stuff
3. The fact that you don't have a contract yet and as such you are unable to do any work for them.
That's it. It's not 4 months of work, it's 2-3 emails.

And then after that, all comms from you should just be with your agent. If the client is bugging you, send them an email, copied in to the consultancy asking for an update on your contract.

As a final thought, normally when someone starts talking about "it's illegal" or "is it legal?" what they actually mean is "I don't like this and want to know if I can sue someone and make money because of the poor decisions I've made"

[jamesbrown]

How is this illegal?

OP is just very confused about a lot of things. Confused and unwilling to learn is much worse, though, so hopefully they aren't that...

[jamesbrown]

And they already doing things illegally. Why they gave laptop and asked to perform activities when no contract in place?

Client has only way to communicate is through their laptop and I am not yet obliged to keep it on and keep checking their emails. And in the absence of contract not obliged to respond to agency through my personal email.

I am starting to understand how you got yourself into this situation...

Take a step back and try to learn from this experience. You screwed up. The client doesn't sound great either. The most you can do is to return the laptop and, if they don't pay, chalk it up to experience or begin the recovery process, but it's harder when you're relying on a contract implied by conduct, rather than written terms.

[WTFH]

Emailed this morning only to check if they are giving contract or just exploting the situation.

Let me ask again, when was the last time you SPOKE to the agency?

[Snooky]

And they already doing things illegally. Why they gave laptop and asked to perform activities when no contract in place?

How is this illegal?

[NotAllThere]

... can I deny to return laptop unless not paid.

No. That would be extortion and possibly theft.

And they already doing things illegally. Why they gave laptop and asked to perform activities when no contract in place?

Even if they are doing something illegal, it doesn't give you the right to behave in the same way. And it won't stand up in court if you end up being sued.

[ak2453]

No, you cannot legally withhold their equipment pending payment.

And they already doing things illegally. Why they gave laptop and asked to perform activities when no contract in place?

Client has only way to communicate is through their laptop and I am not yet obliged to keep it on and keep checking their emails. And in the absence of contract not obliged to respond to agency through my personal email.

[jamesbrown]

What if I stop communicating from client laptop and completely switch off. The only way for them to reach out to agency via consultancy and then I can ask for payment or not returning laptop as it has all proof of my work. This would put pressure on consultancy and agency fearing for their reputation with client. Wouldn't be going this way but just a deep thought.

No, you cannot legally withhold their equipment pending payment.