Renewal - agency dragging feet

[BlasterBates]

I think the main risk is the lack of insurance. E.g. suppose that I accidentally delete a database or trip over and knock a server on the floor. Who has to pay for that? This role is inside IR35, so I should be covered by the umbrella company's insurance, but I think they'd refuse to pay up if I'm out of contract.

If there is really no contract then your agency will inform you and you won't work until there is a contract. If the agency says it's OK the contract will run from the first day after the previous one expired

Normally the contract has been agreed and it's all about the formality of simply receiving the paperwork.

[hobnob]

Is there a problem with working for the client without having a written contract renewal in place?

I think the main risk is the lack of insurance. E.g. suppose that I accidentally delete a database or trip over and knock a server on the floor. Who has to pay for that? This role is inside IR35, so I should be covered by the umbrella company's insurance, but I think they'd refuse to pay up if I'm out of contract.

[BlasterBates]

Is there a problem with working for the client without having a written contract renewal in place?
For me personally, I would be happy to continue to work, as long as there is a verbal contract renewal in place from the client, and the client is happy to sign one's timesheets. The worst that can happen is that the agent refuses to pay you on the basis that a written contract was never in place, but I would have thought that signed timesheets from the client would allow you to successfully sue the agent for payment on that basis, as this would imply that the signing of the timesheet is an implicit continuation of the contract.
Though I accept I don't have proof that this is the case, and am going by a "common sense" rather than a legal point of view, hence there is risk here. Has this happened to anyone?

Indeed, a verbal confirmation is legally binding, if the agency agrees that you keep on working and the client has allowed you on site you are entitled to be paid.

[BlasterBates]

It has happened to me numerous times. Just check with the agency that the paperwork is in the pipeline. I never worried about it and continued to work the gaps. Staying at home simply means you'll throw away revenue. The paperwork is just a formality.

[GJABS]

Is there a problem with working for the client without having a written contract renewal in place?
For me personally, I would be happy to continue to work, as long as there is a verbal contract renewal in place from the client, and the client is happy to sign one's timesheets. The worst that can happen is that the agent refuses to pay you on the basis that a written contract was never in place, but I would have thought that signed timesheets from the client would allow you to successfully sue the agent for payment on that basis, as this would imply that the signing of the timesheet is an implicit continuation of the contract.
Though I accept I don't have proof that this is the case, and am going by a "common sense" rather than a legal point of view, hence there is risk here. Has this happened to anyone?

[hobnob]

Thanks for all the advice.

Very normal.Agency won't extend you until client extends agency (or agencies, if there are a number in the chain, which is common). Clients often extend agency in the closing hours of the last day.

Yes, that makes sense, and it would be different if the client was causing the delay. However, in this case I know for a fact that the client have done everything (i.e. the agent confirmed that the client have sent over the paperwork).

I remember being on a rolling month at one point at O2 and literally handed my laptop back every last Friday and then the renewal popped up at 4pm.

I had that situation with a previous client (where the delay was due to them rather than the agency). On Friday afternoon, I set up my email with an autoreply to say "I no longer work here, please contact X with any queries" and dropped off my laptop at the security desk. I then spent Monday lazing around at home, until they'd sorted out the paperwork for Tuesday.

I would state clearly to the agency and the client that you will not be on site on Monday 30th due to lack of contractual cover and let them fight it out.

Yeah, I think that's the best approach. I'll talk to them on Monday (23rd) and say that I won't be in on Mon 30th (onwards) until the contract is sorted out. Hopefully the client can lean on the agency.

[ladymuck]

It's a lame excuse the agent is coming up with.

I remember one stint at Barclays, which may have been with Spring, where it got to the last day of my contract and no paperwork came through. I just emailed the the agency and the contract manager saying I wouldn't be back on Monday unless the contract was sent by noon. Lo and behold, it turned up.

I would state clearly to the agency and the client that you will not be on site on Monday 30th due to lack of contractual cover and let them fight it out.

[quackhandle]

Had this with Hays back in 2007 so things haven't really changed.

They would usually sort it at 5.15 on a Friday of last day of current contract.

(And only because I wouldn't accept any meetings the following week. )

qh

[northernladuk]

I'd be surprised if there is any seasoned contractor that's not had this unfortuantely. I remember being on a rolling month at one point at O2 and literally handed my laptop back every last Friday and then the renewal popped up at 4pm. Didn't get it one week and I had to go sit in the car park on Monday morning until the mail arrived and I could go in. Bit of an extreme example but yeh, most of us have had something like your situation.

[SueEllen]

It is very common.

Confirm again today with the client that they want to offer you an extension and tell them that there are agency delays so if you don't have the paperwork you can't work.

On Monday first thing if you don't have the paperwork:
1. Contact the client manager to tell them you can't work as you don't have the paperwork. Then don't work.
2. Contact the agent to ask where the paperwork is and tell them you told the client you are unable to work until it arrives. Sometimes there are admin people who work with the agent that you can contact by email as well.

Then go and watch something on Netflix (or whatever) with your phone on.

Normally the situation is sorted within half a day as the agency is now losing money as well.

[PerfectStorm]

Very normal.

Agency won't extend you until client extends agency (or agencies, if there are a number in the chain, which is common). Clients often extend agency in the closing hours of the last day. Yes you might have a day off in-between (that's ok, the extension doesn't need to literally run without gaps).

Most of my contracts have extended in this very last minute fashion. Get ahead of them by starting your job search (yes you heard that right) in earnest a month before any planned extension. Don't tell your existing client anything, but take interviews, get paperwork, stall, do everything you can short of signing - the worst case scenario is that pre-contract and at the point of your old place offering you the renewal you let someone down by saying you're no longer available (as is your right). Best case - they don't sort out your renewal and you jump ship, having not burnt a month of warchest waiting for their signal to start job hunting.

Put another way - when you sign a 6 month contract, your agency/client is giving you notice that it finishes in 6 months time - use it. If they want to play silly buggers up to the last minute, that invokes some risk on their part which they must bear some responsibility for - and if they don't want risk, they can of course lock in an extension early, which they have chosen (and it IS a choice) not to do.

All part of the mindset of having a business :-)

[JustKeepSwimming]

Has anyone else come across a similar situation?

Think most of us have dealt with crappy agents.

My response would depend on your relationship with the client/manager. If the client is solid, and you have a good relationship with your manager I would tell agent you want it by COP tomorrow. If you don't get it tell your manager on Monday you haven't received your extension, could they please ask HR to give the agency a nudge. Contract managers (HR) will absolutely pull agencies up on their BS. I've known contract managers who have threatened to blacklist agencies over some pretty petty things.

Again, if the client is solid, don't stress about it. I'm sure a certain person will screech otherwise, but solid clients are not going to burn you over a contract technicality.

If the client is shaky for whatever reason, I would be a lot more forceful with both the agency and my manager, bearing in mind it's the agency at fault but the manager who suffers if not resolved.

[hobnob]

My current contract is due to end next week (Fri 27th Oct), but the client has offered to extend for another 5 months (i.e. up until the end of the financial year); given what the market is like at the moment, I'm happy to stay on.

I spoke to the recruitment agent (Hays) on Tuesday, and he confirmed that he's received all the paperwork from the client's HR department. At that point, he said that he'd get the confirmation letter over to me by the following day (i.e. yesterday). However, he then sent a follow-up email saying that he wants to provide the letter on 31st Oct. Apparently this is "to avoid any delays in payment between now and then - in case any issues arise during processing your extension".

I replied, saying that:
a) I'd like to get the paperwork sorted out as soon as possible, rather than leaving it until the last minute.
b) That would leave me without a contract on Mon 30th Oct.

He hasn't replied yet, but I assume that he got confused about my current end date and assumed that it would be the end of the month.

For context, my original contract got extended 1 day before it ended, but that delay was due to the client rather than the agency. I would have thought that the agent would want to lock in his commission as a priority!

For extra context, last week's payment was overdue: it turned out that the agency had sent a notification to the umbrella, but hadn't actually transferred the money across, so I had to chase them on Monday to get that sorted out.

Realistically, I'm not going to walk away from the extension, and I can't deal direct with the client (or use a different agency) because of the handcuff clause. I don't know whether there's any way to deal with a different agent within the same agency.

Has anyone else come across a similar situation?