Reply to: Maximum duration of contracting for public sector

[PCTNN]

But across the whole org, it’s absolutely teeming with contractors, many of them who’ve been hanging around for a couple of years at least, going between teams with slight changes in roles (project manager to change manager for example).

Yep, same in my department. Slight change of title and there you go, another 24 months.

I’ve been hearing from Day 1 that they want to reduce the number of contractors and hire more permies but given the peanuts they’re offering for perm roles and nonsensical top-down recruitment restrictions which tie their hands, they’re struggling. The minister seems to living in some kind of fantasy land where tech professionals are falling over themselves to take a pay cut and join the civil service.

Same situation at my client, too (wait, are we working for the same PS client or are they all the same?). In my department now there is a hiring freeze for permies but before then they couldn't find anyone with the experience and skillset they wanted for the glamorous salary of 37k a year.

[DrewG]

Maximum number of days should be ZERO

Cry all you want about this comment but public sector is where the chronically slow contractors go to leech money from the tax payer. It's great if you like to write and re-write high level designs for 8 months without anything getting built.

That northern lad used to say he had great PS contracts then in another post, started talking about how some PS contracts expect you to lower your rate over time... good one.

[sreed]

I’ve been contracting inside-IR35 as a PM with a PS department for 6 months, prior to that it’s mostly been Tech SMEs and startups. The team I’m working for is quite on the ball, only 3 month contracts at a time and their Director makes them work hard to justify any further extensions. I’m the only contractor they have.

But across the whole org, it’s absolutely teeming with contractors, many of them who’ve been hanging around for a couple of years at least, going between teams with slight changes in roles (project manager to change manager for example).

I’ve been hearing from Day 1 that they want to reduce the number of contractors and hire more permies but given the peanuts they’re offering for perm roles and nonsensical top-down recruitment restrictions which tie their hands, they’re struggling. The minister seems to living in some kind of fantasy land where tech professionals are falling over themselves to take a pay cut and join the civil service.

[PCTNN]

yes, gig is inside ir35

[northernladuk]

At my current public sector client there is indeed the 24 months rule. Although this is just a formality; when the 24 months have passed, the client changes your job title (original job title was 'business analyst'....after 24 months your job title becomes 'senior business analyst') and you're good to go for another 24 months. After another 24 months, my public sector client can't employ you anymore for 6 months so what they do is they make you work for 6 months via one of their tech partners and then after the 6 months have passed, you go back to being employed by original public sector client.

I have colleagues who have worked here for this client for 8+ years

I'm assuming you are inside at that gig? Or FTC looking at the bold above?

[anonymouse]

2 year rule where I am, but some are extended if they can't find a suitable replacement (either business or technical knowledge). They are currently reviewing all contractors & suppliers with a view to a reduction before September. Even those permies that left via VR, with critical skills, aren't allowed back.

[PCTNN]

However, I am hearing from others that their public sector clients have their own policies to terminate contractors (even inside IR35 ones) after two years; I don't know why they think that necessary.

At my current public sector client there is indeed the 24 months rule. Although this is just a formality; when the 24 months have passed, the client changes your job title (original job title was 'business analyst'....after 24 months your job title becomes 'senior business analyst') and you're good to go for another 24 months. After another 24 months, my public sector client can't employ you anymore for 6 months so what they do is they make you work for 6 months via one of their tech partners and then after the 6 months have passed, you go back to being employed by original public sector client.

I have colleagues who have worked here for this client for 8+ years

[northernladuk]

not nil..... But very low.... And I was migrating them to Teams, during a pandemic, when the 2 years came up.

I imagine the OP is trying to look at different ways to get around the two year rule so even if it was possible to get on the PSL some clueless people won't want that persons face around regardless of what is possible around the frameworks. Too scared of the rules to be flexible.

Then getting on a PS PSL is a nightmare, often can only be done off the back of tender work or whatever they find on GCLOUD/Digital outcomes or whatever they are running now and that needs an in depth piece of diligence usually requiring scoring against other suppliers. The idea of one person hoovering up a bit of work they've seen doesn't really work in PS and particularly in the dept I was in. It's no wonder they were stuck with god awful suppliers pulling their pants down.

So you are right, it's not nil but it's extremely arduous and is often requirement specific, not just when someone spots something tasty.

EDIT : And what Gibbon says.

[Gibbon]

Ask the client, agent, client manager and try to get to the bottom of it as there is a possibility there is a two year hard stop.

PS is risk averse. Mrs G works there, and I know that if someone is in a temp position for two years then it becomes automatically permanent. Usually with permies its if someone is acting up a grade etc. But they probably don't want the slight chance that some scummy SC tries it on and wins as that would create chaos.

[eek]

not nil..... But very low.... And I was migrating them to Teams, during a pandemic, when the 2 years came up.

And based on that task and timing that is the very definition of keep the current guy in place come what may (i.e. without being an essential task at the time of a pandemic you haven't got a chance)..

[Lance]

Depends on what framework you've come in on. I must admit I can't remember which I was on but I've done two outside stints with the same Gov dept and in both cases I had to leave when I hit two years. Tried everything to get around it, even coming in via small consultancy on a different framework but they didn't want to know.

So I see a lot of comments above saying there isn't one but my experience there can be a very hard stop at two years depending on how you've been engaged.

Chance of going direct via PSL to get around the two year rule are absolutely nil IMO.

Ask the client, agent, client manager and try to get to the bottom of it as there is a possibility there is a two year hard stop.

not nil..... But very low.... And I was migrating them to Teams, during a pandemic, when the 2 years came up.

[northernladuk]

Depends on what framework you've come in on. I must admit I can't remember which I was on but I've done two outside stints with the same Gov dept and in both cases I had to leave when I hit two years. Tried everything to get around it, even coming in via small consultancy on a different framework but they didn't want to know.

So I see a lot of comments above saying there isn't one but my experience there can be a very hard stop at two years depending on how you've been engaged.

Chance of going direct via PSL to get around the two year rule are absolutely nil IMO.

Ask the client, agent, client manager and try to get to the bottom of it as there is a possibility there is a two year hard stop.

[Lance]

To me it sounds like they are trying to cut the OP after two years and the OP is trying to fight this decision.

that's what I thought, but it's an assumption.... I have had PS extend beyond 2 years against their own policy by being needed for some project work. In that case it is a good opportunity to try and go direct if you can get on the PSL (need to get on well with procurement and find out what frameworks they use).

[dsc]

[...]Why do you ask? There's more to this than just your questions, so maybe provide some information???

To me it sounds like they are trying to cut the OP after two years and the OP is trying to fight this decision.

[Lance]

NI also observe that departments are increasingly paranoid about getting the IR35 status determination wrong and keep changing their processes, which can mean uncertainty at extension time, including having some down-time while they make up their mind (again).

not making a decision in the PS will NOT get you fired....