Reply to: Lining up multiple offers and timelines

[SussexSeagull]

I find its not so much that but the bigger the client (or worse, the bigger the in-situ constancy firm) the more you feel like you're in the matrix surrounded by robots.

Some of them, I genuinely wonder if there's a shred of personality inside.

I sometimes find small to medium sized companies can develop a way of working which long stopped evolving which they assume is the only way of doing things hence their minds closed years ago.

One of the challenges of doing what we do.

[PerfectStorm]

I have noticed over the years an inverse correlation between pay and fun/good people to work with. My theory is, the worse the place is, the higher the pay needed to retain and recruit.

I find its not so much that but the bigger the client (or worse, the bigger the in-situ constancy firm) the more you feel like you're in the matrix surrounded by robots.

Some of them, I genuinely wonder if there's a shred of personality inside.

[edison]

I don't think expecting a response in 24 hours on a contract offer is unreasonable.

I don't think you did much wrong. Sometimes things just don't work out in your favour.

I accept the first decent offer, might be something else better in the pipeline but an offer is an offer vs a maybe...

You just got unlucky they pulled the deal on you. It happens... Although, been doing this 14 years now and its never happened to me, so just chalk it up as being unlucky and move on.

I agree, 24 hours for a reply isn't unreasonable but it can be very variable. As a candidate you should always ask the circumstances of why the role is available e.g. is it replacing a contractor, it's the start of a new project, cover for a permie who's just resigned and so on. It's not always an urgent hire.

When the market is strong, which admittedly it isn't right now, then as a hiring manager, you need to move fast to secure the best candidates. Once I was a member of a panel interviewing candidates for a really tricky HR/payroll PM role. We interviewed one candidate at lunchtime and the second candidate early the next morning. Decided to make an offer to the first candidate and in the intervening time he had been approached for another role, been interviewed and accepted so we lost out.

[dx4100]

I don't think expecting a response in 24 hours on a contract offer is unreasonable.

I don't think you did much wrong. Sometimes things just don't work out in your favour.

I accept the first decent offer, might be something else better in the pipeline but an offer is an offer vs a maybe...

You just got unlucky they pulled the deal on you. It happens... Although, been doing this 14 years now and its never happened to me, so just chalk it up as being unlucky and move on.

[gixxer2021]

I have noticed over the years an inverse correlation between pay and fun/good people to work with. My theory is, the worse the place is, the higher the pay needed to retain and recruit.

Bizarrely I’ve mainly found the opposite, the worst paying gigs have generally been miserable, micromanaged, little autonomy, poor work and conditions (usually different from how they sold it in the interview too). Higher paid generally much more autonomy, wfh, cutting edge tech, etc.

[NotAllThere]

Pressure makes diamonds

And very flat things.

[PerfectStorm]

Definitely a good idea to have 2/3 on the table if you can. Keep interviewing even if it's Thursday and you're expected to get a contract tomorrow for a Monday start. It so often doesn't happen, and then you can burn literal months waiting for "jam tomorrow"

That said, don't get too hung up on what you consider to be the preferred one of the 2/3 - other than materially invariable stuff like money, not a lot of it ends up accurate to your predictions of how it'll go. Just dive in and see what happens.

I've had to disappoint before, but only ever pre-contract (some agents handle this better than others, but if they really wanted to commit early, they would - and they don't do that either, so don't feel bad).

[Fraidycat]

Never ever tell clients or agents you are interviewing elsewhere.

But do make one up if you have nothing else, I once did my version of 'biding off the wall', got a 15% bump on the rate vs what i went in at, by saying i had a higher offer from another client.

Even told them it wasn't me who asked for the higher rate at the other place, it was Mr Agent who put me in at a higher rate against my instructions. Also said the wife is pressuring me to take the other role, but i would prefer to work for your client, so can they match it?

[TheDude]

I'm new to the contracting world and looking to start my first contract role, hoping I can get some advice on lining up multiple offers, timelines to accept and negotiating rates.

I recently had an offer come in, and they told me I had to accept the offer within 24 hours. Is this standard practice or a pressure tactic?

I told the other company I was in final stages with (They had a much higher rate) and they moved the final interview forward and gave me an offer within the 24 hours. As such I turned down the original company and went with the newer offer.

The next day I signed the contract for my accepted offer, then hours later they told me they were no longer hiring this role, and the position was withdrawn. I went back to the first company to see if they were still interested, they did some delaying tactics for a few days then came back and said they were unhappy I rejected them and have gone with someone else (I assume they were interviewing other candidates during the delay).

Is there anything I could have done to handle this better? I feel I rushed the second company to make a decision and they just accepted not to lose me, then changed their mind. Should I have accepted both roles and waited till they sent laptops out?

In the perm world I'm used the receiving multiple offers, picking the best and negotiating the salary up between them. Is this not really done in contractor land?

I have three final stage interviews coming up next week on consecutive days, and am worried I will run into the same issues. What's the best way to mitigate this and end up with the best rate?

Never ever tell clients or agents you are interviewing elsewhere.

[TheDude]

It's a pressure tactic.

Pressure makes diamonds

[northernladuk]

Didn't hear anything that would indicate the role would get pulled. It was for a big multinational, relatively new project consisting of multiple contractors already. I just found it odd that they could do a complete 180 in the space of a day.

It happens. We've had posts from people that have had roles pulled after they left the interview, next day, day before start and even a guy who was told it was pulled while sitting in reception from day one. Just happens. There must be a reason but little point trying to understand why.

As I'm new to contracting I was unsure what rate I could command and how successful I would be in the interviews,

So let me give you a different perspective then. Contracting is a career, gigs come and go. Some pay great, some are utter tulipe but they are short term.
As a new contractor you should be taking the most prestigious gig, the one with the lastest tech or the one that is going to make you look the best for your next gig.

So the rate is 40 quid a day less but it could mean you'll land the next gig the after you leave the other. A couple of weeks/months on the bench because you took the highest paying but crappy gig is very poor planning and is just not profitable. Play the long game. You are new, become the best and gaurantee yourself end to end outside gigs because you are the best and THEN you can chase the higher paying gigs.

[Paralytic]

Not sure what more you could have done, it's just you were very unlucky.

I'd have stalled on the first offer (rather than rejecting it) for as long as possible, even after the second offer came in. End result might have been the same, however.

[fakenick]

Thanks for your responses, all this is a learning experience for me so really good to get input from people in the know.

Was there any inkling this was going to happen?

Didn't hear anything that would indicate the role would get pulled. It was for a big multinational, relatively new project consisting of multiple contractors already. I just found it odd that they could do a complete 180 in the space of a day.

Lots of great advice here, there was a sizeable (> 30%) rate difference between the two roles so I thought it was worth the risk, but didn't pay off this time. As I'm new to contracting I was unsure what rate I could command and how successful I would be in the interviews, these two roles just happened to be on either end of the scale in terms of pay. Point taken on not worrying about small differences on day rates and going for the most fun gig!

[krytonsheep]

Best way to mitigate is not to be greedy and accept the gig that looks the most fun even if it's not the top rate.

I have noticed over the years an inverse correlation between pay and fun/good people to work with. My theory is, the worse the place is, the higher the pay needed to retain and recruit.

[northernladuk]

I recently had an offer come in, and they told me I had to accept the offer within 24 hours. Is this standard practice or a pressure tactic?

Varies. You could argue it's a pressure tactic for sure but your own situation is one they are trying to avoid. They want you to sign quick, not waste time balancing two gigs and you then turn them down after the other offer has come through. So by your own example you can see why they want you to sign quick. They'll have a lot of experience of giving contractors a few days and then getting turned down after so seem fair on that basis.

Also, a vast majoirity of gigs I've done I've interviewed Monday/Tues, accepted Weds/Thurs and been on site on the Monday after so things can move very quickly so 24 hours is reasonable when you are going to be on site in less than three days.

I told the other company I was in final stages with (They had a much higher rate) and they moved the final interview forward and gave me an offer within the 24 hours. As such I turned down the original company and went with the newer offer.

Which is exactly why the demand a 24 hour period. You can't blame them as you yourself have just shafted them. We complain about some of the tactics agents push but it's because we do this to them. Make a rod for our back sometimes.

The next day I signed the contract for my accepted offer, then hours later they told me they were no longer hiring this role, and the position was withdrawn. I went back to the first company to see if they were still interested, they did some delaying tactics for a few days then came back and said they were unhappy I rejected them and have gone with someone else (I assume they were interviewing other candidates during the delay).

Was there any inkling this was going to happen? Contractor interviews are different to perm, we also have to interview the client to understand the work, potential for it getting withdrawn, possibility of extensions, the type of work that will be done etc. Experienced contractors might pick up on something the client says, maybe you are coming in to save a dying project which is a red flag, unreasonable timescales, they are unsure what they want to do etc.
Can't blame the first agent really.

Is there anything I could have done to handle this better? I feel I rushed the second company to make a decision and they just accepted not to lose me, then changed their mind. Should I have accepted both roles and waited till they sent laptops out?

It is what it is. Unfortuntate you got two offers so close, unlucky it fell through etc. All pretty normal stuff, just a rather extreme and very unfortunate situation.
Personally I wouldn't advocate accepting gigs you are likely to have to then turn down. Gets extremely messy but I can see that some people might say yes take both and then just deal with the fall out after. Remember if you accept you are bound to the contract which includes notice periods for termination. If you just say you aren't turning up you are in breach of contract and the agent would be completely in their rights to sue you for loss of commmission and the costs of finding a replacement.

In the perm world I'm used the receiving multiple offers, picking the best and negotiating the salary up between them. Is this not really done in contractor land?

Not really. Clients have charge rates, agents take a margin which 'could' be negotiated in certain circumstances so little room to negotiate. Also contractors are called in where there is an urgent need and will often be wanted straight away. As I said, nearly every gig I've had it's been less than 5 days from application to sitting at the clients desk. There are litterly hundreds of contractors applying for the same gig. To a perm they are investing in you and unlikely to be too many suitable candidates and it's an enduring job so can wait. In contracting it's first in the queue at the desk and boom.

I have three final stage interviews coming up next week on consecutive days, and am worried I will run into the same issues. What's the best way to mitigate this and end up with the best rate?

As you've seen, playing contracts off against each other more often than not ends very badly. Just attend every interview, ask how long before they want you to start which will give you an idea of what time you've got to play with and weigh up the situation based on feedback from each interview. Do not expect to have all three on the table and have a week to think about it. As you see that just doesn't work.

And yes it's nice to get the top rate but contracts will come and go, you'll get great rates and you'll get awful ones. Every contract is short term. Don't risk losing contracts for the sake of a few 10's of quid per day. If you interview for one, sounds good and suits you but it's 25 quid less than the next one which can fold, isn't quite as attractive etc IMO you'd be stupid to let the 25 quid a day sway your decision with the very real risk of having nothing. Your current example should tell you that. You put off the lower rate to chase the higher one and now have nothing.
Best way to mitigate is not to be greedy and accept the gig that looks the most fun even if it's not the top rate.