On call/Standby - whats your approach?

[Lance]

You’ve missed so many key elements. If you are asked, even “in principal”, then there are a few facts that you need to know…
Is this a one off, e.g. for a go live?
Is it over an extended period, e.g. Christmas?
Is it due to permies going on strike, i.e. it could be multiple times over several months?

If someone wants me on call, I’d want to understand why.
If I’m part of a project, I’ll probably know why. If I’m doing BAU stuff, then I’d hope I knew why, or if not I would ask.

But, as usual, you’ve provided very few pieces of relevant contextual information and a lot of emotional/irrelevant fluff.

I’ve done “on-call” in the past, where I agreed a number of hours per month and a rate (about 1.5x my normal hourly rate). They would get invoice for those whether they used them or not. If they needed more, then the additional hours were at 2x my normal rate.
I’ve also done it where I agreed a rate of 1/4 my daily rate, whether I was used or not, and then if I was needed, they paid my hourly rate on top if there were any calls.

In all cases, I’ve agreed an SLA on it as well, which was normally a 1-2 hour response time (allowing me to go out and do things and not just sit at home waiting for the phone to ring), also advised them if there would be times that I would not be available.

Good communication with your clients is key to a good working relationship.
If you communicate with them as poorly as you do on here, then that’s where most of your problems lie.

principle

Actually it's not incorrect spelling. It's the wrong word.
Ands yes PC got it wrong first, but I expect that.

[WTFH]

Current place asked me in principal …

You’ve missed so many key elements. If you are asked, even “in principal”, then there are a few facts that you need to know…
Is this a one off, e.g. for a go live?
Is it over an extended period, e.g. Christmas?
Is it due to permies going on strike, i.e. it could be multiple times over several months?

If someone wants me on call, I’d want to understand why.
If I’m part of a project, I’ll probably know why. If I’m doing BAU stuff, then I’d hope I knew why, or if not I would ask.

But, as usual, you’ve provided very few pieces of relevant contextual information and a lot of emotional/irrelevant fluff.

I’ve done “on-call” in the past, where I agreed a number of hours per month and a rate (about 1.5x my normal hourly rate). They would get invoice for those whether they used them or not. If they needed more, then the additional hours were at 2x my normal rate.
I’ve also done it where I agreed a rate of 1/4 my daily rate, whether I was used or not, and then if I was needed, they paid my hourly rate on top if there were any calls.

In all cases, I’ve agreed an SLA on it as well, which was normally a 1-2 hour response time (allowing me to go out and do things and not just sit at home waiting for the phone to ring), also advised them if there would be times that I would not be available.

Good communication with your clients is key to a good working relationship.
If you communicate with them as poorly as you do on here, then that’s where most of your problems lie.

[Paralytic]

I try to push back as much as possible. Sometimes there is no avoiding it, in which case it has always been at my hourly rate * number of hours called out.

So no charge for being on call? I'd never offer that.

[Dagger]

I try to push back as much as possible. Sometimes there is no avoiding it, in which case it has always been at my hourly rate * number of hours called out.

[gables]

But if you want a serious answer then this covers it. Just picking a rate is going to end in tears, yours. You've got to cover your arse so you don't get multiple calls a night forever and all the above to make sure you aren't house bound for the rest of your life. Nothing good will come from just talking about a rate, there is much more to it than that and you've got to protect yourself. Can't have an open ended agreement so have to be very careful you nail it down hard or you are going to get absolutely shafted.

But better still.. honestly.. just say no.

This all the way

[northernladuk]

You are Zammo and I claim my five pounds.

qh

Daaamn. Great call that one

[quackhandle]

But better still.. honestly.. just say no.

You are Zammo and I claim my five pounds.

qh

[northernladuk]

I'd be offering them a rate card similar to

- on call - my rate * 0.25
- call outs: monthly invoice billed at minimum hours * myrate (say 10-20 hours per month), with the hours on a use-them-or-lose basis so this is invoiced even if you are not called out (you could offer them a partial carry-forward for un-used hours).
- additional hours over and above those pre-invocied at myrate * 1.5.
- Do they want in-hours on-call (mon-fri 9-5) or out of hours (evenings, nights, weekends)? If the latter, amend rates as appropriate

You can vary the multipliers as you see fit.

You'll need to agree an SLA, depending on what role you do. X hours to first response, Y hours to resolution (this might not be possible).

But if you want a serious answer then this covers it. Just picking a rate is going to end in tears, yours. You've got to cover your arse so you don't get multiple calls a night forever and all the above to make sure you aren't house bound for the rest of your life. Nothing good will come from just talking about a rate, there is much more to it than that and you've got to protect yourself. Can't have an open ended agreement so have to be very careful you nail it down hard or you are going to get absolutely shafted.

But better still.. honestly.. just say no.

[northernladuk]

Always a difficult one

Usually only for you

- being the awkward contractor who thinks hes special always looks bad I've found.

As opposed to your own experience of just being a bad contractor?

I always help out if I can.

And moan like stink to us afterwards. I thought you would have learned your lesson by now.

Got stitched up in last place so should learn my lesson. Agreeing to help out for 3 months ended up being 2 years and it was an "off the record" TOIL deal. Never again.

Until next time.

Current place asked me in principal and I said I'd help out if I could but let me know the rate.

So you learned your lesson and you said no thank you?

Next thing I know, its been sent to the agency, and I've had an email with a new schedule from my umbrella. £3.21 an hour on call..... (which I'm pretty sure is what the permies get) Umm no thanks.......

Oh, so you didn't learn your lesson, quelle surprise.

Just wondered what everyone else agrees to in general? Surely something like 10%-20% of rate is average?

To put it into perspective, my mrs is a nurse (private company not NHS). Pay is not great. Her oncall rate is £9.50 an hour (which OK is pretty good).

Quoting what a nurse gets in the public sector puts zero perspective on what a contractor gets in the private sector.

But seriously. Just say no. It's gonna make your brain hurt working it out and you aren't got to get what you really want so gonna end up moaning about that someway down the line.
You are gonna moan if the call you out, you are gonna moan if they don't call you out, you are gonna moan when they call you out every night multiple times, you are gonna moan when you see how little of this you get after tax, you are gonna moan for years that another client stitched you up and it's all their fault and so on.

Just don't do it. Struggle on doing what you are contracted to do and forget all this nonesense. It's not for you.

[psychocandy]

I'd be offering them a rate card similar to

- on call - my rate * 0.25
- call outs: monthly invoice billed at minimum hours * myrate (say 10-20 hours per month), with the hours on a use-them-or-lose basis so this is invoiced even if you are not called out (you could offer them a partial carry-forward for un-used hours).
- additional hours over and above those pre-invocied at myrate * 1.5.
- Do they want in-hours on-call (mon-fri 9-5) or out of hours (evenings, nights, weekends)? If the latter, amend rates as appropriate

You can vary the multipliers as you see fit.

You'll need to agree an SLA, depending on what role you do. X hours to first response, Y hours to resolution (this might not be possible).

Yeh 1/4 seems fair to me to be honest. At the moment I thinks its something like 1/30th!

[Lance]

To put it into perspective, my mrs is a nurse (private company not NHS). Pay is not great. Her oncall rate is £9.50 an hour (which OK is pretty good).

But she has to stay sober. And be good at her job.
What about you?

[Paralytic]

I'd be offering them a rate card similar to

- on call - my rate * 0.25
- call outs: monthly invoice billed at minimum hours * myrate (say 10-20 hours per month), with the hours on a use-them-or-lose basis so this is invoiced even if you are not called out (you could offer them a partial carry-forward for un-used hours).
- additional hours over and above those pre-invocied at myrate * 1.5.
- Do they want in-hours on-call (mon-fri 9-5) or out of hours (evenings, nights, weekends)? If the latter, amend rates as appropriate

You can vary the multipliers as you see fit.

You'll need to agree an SLA, depending on what role you do. X hours to first response, Y hours to resolution (this might not be possible).

[psychocandy]

Always a difficult one - being the awkward contractor who thinks hes special always looks bad I've found. I always help out if I can.

Got stitched up in last place so should learn my lesson. Agreeing to help out for 3 months ended up being 2 years and it was an "off the record" TOIL deal. Never again.

Current place asked me in principal and I said I'd help out if I could but let me know the rate. Next thing I know, its been sent to the agency, and I've had an email with a new schedule from my umbrella. £3.21 an hour on call..... (which I'm pretty sure is what the permies get) Umm no thanks.......

Just wondered what everyone else agrees to in general? Surely something like 10%-20% of rate is average?

To put it into perspective, my mrs is a nurse (private company not NHS). Pay is not great. Her oncall rate is £9.50 an hour (which OK is pretty good).