Reply to: Inside IR35 ‘tasks’

[eek]

I'll be honest I don't have a clue - none of it makes any sense.

If umbrella employees/workers are agency workers after 12 weeks they should get your holiday entitlement and pay uprated to equivalent of a perm doing the same role IF you are an agency worker.

https://www.acas.org.uk/agency-worke...-agency-worker

I'm guessing though they are not classed as agency workers (northenladuk aluded to this) due to some legal loophole otherwise people would be talking about this and also the entitlement to redundancy after 2 years...

Umbrella workers should do - the issue comes down to how good the umbrella and the agency is...

Beyond that I haven't got the first clue what you are complaining about - beyond the point you clearly don't know what you are talking about.

[some guy some where]

I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about.

Umbrella workers aren't disguised agency workers - they are agency workers and subject to the same rules because the work is sourced through an agency.

And they don't get paid annual leave after 12 weeks it starts at the end of week 1 (well day 1)....

I'll be honest I don't have a clue - none of it makes any sense.

If umbrella employees/workers are agency workers after 12 weeks they should get your holiday entitlement and pay uprated to equivalent of a perm doing the same role IF you are an agency worker.

https://www.acas.org.uk/agency-worke...-agency-worker

I'm guessing though they are not classed as agency workers (northenladuk aluded to this) due to some legal loophole otherwise people would be talking about this and also the entitlement to redundancy after 2 years...

[eek]

Are inside ir35 umbrella employees not just disguised agency workers ? which would mean after 12 weeks they are entitled to same employment conditions including paid annual leave as perm staff.

I'm guessing this is all operating though some legal loopholes at the moment that I don't understand ?

I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about.

Umbrella workers aren't disguised agency workers - they are agency workers and subject to the same rules because the work is sourced through an agency.

And they don't get paid annual leave after 12 weeks it starts at the end of week 1 (well day 1)....

[WTFH]

FTFY

GPWM.

[eek]

Yet...

What looks like a duck...tends to eventually become a duck in english law...given enough time.

Umbrellas were a niche - becoming mainstream will start to attract the vultures i predict in a few years were start to see some class actions...

They already exist - see Umbrellareclaim.com But they haven't really got anywhere as Employment Tribunals are often saner than other courts.

[some guy some where]

No. Again you are taking a word too literally which I explained earlier. The term disguised agency worker is just a similie. There is no such thing in reality. You are disguised as you look like one. That does not mean you are one and can claim.

Yet...

What looks like a duck...tends to eventually become a duck in english law...given enough time.

Umbrellas were a niche - becoming mainstream will start to attract the vultures i predict in a few years were start to see some class actions...

[northernladuk]

Are inside ir35 umbrella employees not just disguised agency workers ? which would mean after 12 weeks they are entitled to same employment conditions including paid annual leave as perm staff.

I'm guessing this is all operating though some legal loopholes at the moment that I don't understand ?

No. Again you are taking a word too literally which I explained earlier. The term disguised agency worker is just a similie. There is no such thing in reality. You are disguised as you look like one. That does not mean you are one and can claim.

[some guy some where]

Are inside ir35 umbrella employees not just disguised agency workers ? which would mean after 12 weeks they are entitled to same employment conditions including paid annual leave as perm staff.

I'm guessing this is all operating though some legal loopholes at the moment that I don't understand ?

[malvolio]

You can refer to yourself as a contractor if you want, but just remember that if the client tells you to do something, you do it.

FTFY

[eek]

Here's one for you

"I recently took on a new employee, but denied them any employment rights by taking them through an umbrella company".

Not sure about that - it would depend on the T&Cs the umbrella offers...

[NotAllThere]

...and write three sentences about how I have recently demonstrated living the company’s values....

Here's one for you

"I recently took on a new employee, but denied them any employment rights by taking them through an umbrella company".

[ladymuck]

There seems little point resisting if you're Inside, you're getting paid to do it.

I don't think the "all staff training" is particularly relevant though. Working practices, security, fire safety are all things that seem reasonable even if you were Outside.

If I were inside, I'd take all the (useful) training they offer - especially if the company has a tie-in with the likes of LinkedIn Learning or Pluralsight or similar outfits where you'd normally have to pay a subscription.

[jmo21]

I am working inside IR35, and have received a new starter email telling me I must set up my intranet profile (I do have access to the internet) with information about me, ‘follow’ at least five ‘colleagues’ and write three sentences about how I have recently demonstrated living the company’s values.

Sounds like at least a mornings work.

[eek]

This sounds like the sort of rules that most people don't bother with even if you're an employee. I would simply put in the essential contact information. I'm sure no-one will be too worried about whether you can demonstrate the company's values.

Yep - it's the sort of thing I hated so would just treat with the contempt it deserved.

The only exception I can think of is really large firms where it may be useful if you need help from elsewhere - so I wouldn't care if I was doing a standard dev role - but would be battling to create relationships if I was a end client facing consultant

[d000hg]

There seems little point resisting if you're Inside, you're getting paid to do it.

I don't think the "all staff training" is particularly relevant though. Working practices, security, fire safety are all things that seem reasonable even if you were Outside.