• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
  • Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!

You are not logged in or you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

  • You are not logged in. If you are already registered, fill in the form below to log in, or follow the "Sign Up" link to register a new account.
  • You may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
  • If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

Previously on "Working from European country on UK contract"

Collapse

  • AndrewK
    replied
    Originally posted by BlasterBates View Post

    UK employment income is covered by the double taxation treaty but if you are actually working in the Czech Republic it isn't UK employment income and therefore the Czech tax authorities will demand tax in the Czech Republic.
    Yes, and you claim tax back from the UK. But with one I can agree, that it can be problematic if you go via PAYE. PAYE taxes are high everywhere and taxation is complicated. So the only GOOD solution is the LTD way with dividends (registered in the local country). But in that case, I would say something like Bulgaria makes more sense, or to be 100% honest - Dubai with zero taxes (but who will deal with you?). Your local LTD pays you local salary and no issues with taxes.
    Last edited by AndrewK; 14 June 2022, 17:51.

    Leave a comment:


  • PCTNN
    replied
    Originally posted by Lance View Post

    Are you drunk?
    or just trolling?
    I'd say just ignorant

    Leave a comment:


  • lackorol
    replied
    Originally posted by Lance View Post

    Are you drunk?
    or just trolling?
    Said someone who is buying bread and butter with company bank account and he is desperate to pay dividends tax. Yeah ? company money are not yours money so every entrepreneur is establishing corp just for sake of good feeling he just likes buying ******* material or manage employees and as you stated he cant do anything else with money except be double taxed lol. Clever so I am not going establish company because its in my country more efficient with higher rate income I will leverage trade license or doing business as because there is no point in company because its separate entity so you are earning for aliens or what

    Leave a comment:


  • Lance
    replied
    Originally posted by lackorol View Post

    JUst remainder corp money behaves like your money, you can buy flat, house etc. even pay your food, its just inconvenient for small purchases because you need to take evidence. And most of my life I am hoarding cash there are no so big spendings I cant cover from personal conto. So I don't see here much point. You are double taxed only when you transfer from company to personal account. And who would do that?
    Are you drunk?
    or just trolling?

    Leave a comment:


  • lackorol
    replied
    Originally posted by jamesbrown View Post

    Stop calling me "mate", I am not your "mate".

    This is a 0.1% scenario as everyone in this thread has pointed out. UK agents will not, on the whole, work with overseas contractors and vice versa. As someone who mainly works with overseas clients, I know a few things about working with overseas clients. I have never had an overseas client via an agency, it just doesn't happen, partly because of the type of work they deal with, which is more about resourcing projects with people (i.e., people and locations matter from the start), not about finding suppliers to deliver products or services (i.e., people and locations generally don't matter, except when there is a compliance angle).
    I have found that aforementioned agency has office even in EU and some work for EU based people in whenever state. It seems viable consensus here to just look for contract EU, they should let me using my domicile company.

    Leave a comment:


  • lackorol
    replied
    Originally posted by Lance View Post

    you are not comparing the same things.
    the umbrella taxes personal income and the remainder is yours to spend. all done. You keep 55%.

    when you pay corporation tax ( no such thing as corporate income tax), it’s still the company’s money. To get out you need to take income and pay more tax on that.
    JUst remainder corp money behaves like your money, you can buy flat, house etc. even pay your food, its just inconvenient for small purchases because you need to take evidence. And most of my life I am hoarding cash there are no so big spendings I cant cover from personal conto. So I don't see here much point. You are double taxed only when you transfer from company to personal account. And who would do that?

    Leave a comment:


  • WTFH
    replied
    Originally posted by ConsultingTechArchitect View Post
    Point 2 was still correct, you have the option of working from wherever you want without your clients knowledge..... but you're accepting the risk.
    What risk are you accepting?
    Your company insurance won't cover you.
    But hey, if you've got £17.5million (or €20million depending on jurisdiction), then you can afford the fine.

    That's why some of us sit through repeated courses on data protection, processing, sovereignty, etc, which have to be signed off, after sitting tests, to say that we understand and fully comply, and we have quite high levels of business insurance.

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladuk
    replied
    Originally posted by ConsultingTechArchitect View Post

    It's been made clear to me that this is not correct. You cannot do this without permission due to agreements within your client that are not documented in their policies.

    Point 2 was still correct, you have the option of working from wherever you want without your clients knowledge..... but you're accepting the risk.
    But again that is no way to business. The term 'without your clients knowledge' is completely wrong. 'If the client is OK with it' is what you should be saying. If there is any doubt at all about what you are doing you check with the client. It's as simple as that.

    Leave a comment:


  • eek
    replied
    Originally posted by ConsultingTechArchitect View Post

    It's been made clear to me that this is not correct. You cannot do this without permission due to agreements within your client that are not documented in their policies.

    Point 2 was still correct, you have the option of working from wherever you want without your clients knowledge..... but you're accepting the risk.
    Nope, Point 2 is utterly insane - then again it seems we care about data security rather more than you do...

    As for the rest - you are a contractor being brought in to do a piece of work - I doubt you average end client / agency is going to care enough about Data Sovereignty to give the contractor the policies given that they've been led to believe the contractor is in the UK..
    Last edited by eek; 7 June 2022, 15:10.

    Leave a comment:


  • ConsultingTechArchitect
    replied
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    You can but if you have to hide it from the client then something is wrong.
    It's been made clear to me that this is not correct. You cannot do this without permission due to agreements within your client that are not documented in their policies.

    Point 2 was still correct, you have the option of working from wherever you want without your clients knowledge..... but you're accepting the risk.

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladuk
    replied
    Originally posted by ConsultingTechArchitect View Post

    I thought as long as you follow the policies and agreements, you could go wherever you want.
    You can but if you have to hide it from the client then something is wrong.
    I am told that is not the case. Even if you're 100% within the scope of all agreements and client policies, there could still be an issue with a customer agreement about data protection or something. If that's the case. I am wrong with point 2.
    At last!!!!
    This does confuse me though. If I have to comply with unwritten rules that sit outside of policy documents and agreements, what other trouble am I setting myself up for? Organisations should be more explicit about what you can and what you cannot do, I don't think its possible to document everything you can't do though?

    My whole assumption was that if you follow the rules, you can work from somewhere in the EEA (with a UK client). Clearly following the rules is not enough, you need explicit agreements on location.
    Security isn't about written rules. It's about management of risk. The rules are a framework. Risk management is the responsibility of everyone. If you encounter a situation that's not clear in rules you seek clarification so an assessment can be made. If you make a serious F up with data pointing at your contract or their rules isn't going to help you if you haven't followed proper procedures to manage it. Daft example but I am sure there isn't a rule about walking round with your laptop bag half unzipped. If someone nicks your laptop you can't just say ah but you didn't have a rule.

    Leave a comment:


  • ConsultingTechArchitect
    replied
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

    So absolutely nothing to do with option 2 you put about not telling them and hiding your tracks then. You are right in everything you've said so far but all of that has been completely different to 'You don't tell your clients where you are based and you take relevant SecOps precautions to make sure nobody finds out.' Thats the point people are trying to make to you.
    I thought as long as you follow the policies and agreements, you could go wherever you want.

    I am told that is not the case. Even if you're 100% within the scope of all agreements and client policies, there could still be an issue with a customer agreement about data protection or something. If that's the case. I am wrong with point 2.

    This does confuse me though. If I have to comply with unwritten rules that sit outside of policy documents and agreements, what other trouble am I setting myself up for? Organisations should be more explicit about what you can and what you cannot do, I don't think its possible to document everything you can't do though?

    My whole assumption was that if you follow the rules, you can work from somewhere in the EEA (with a UK client). Clearly following the rules is not enough, you need explicit agreements on location.
    Last edited by ConsultingTechArchitect; 7 June 2022, 14:45.

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladuk
    replied
    Originally posted by ConsultingTechArchitect View Post

    I can operate 100% in compliance with my agreements and the clients written policies. If this is not enough, then I concede you are correct and working abroad only works with explicit permission from all concerned parties.

    I do not know my clients customers agreements with my clients. I only know their data lives in the EEA due to the locations of various Oracle SaaS systems. If my clients customer does not agree with EEA data, then my client isn't compliant I guess.

    I've never had a problem telling clients I will be abroad at various times. Maybe I have been very very lucky.

    "that you as a contractor looking into the company would never see."
    maybe you need to work in more strategic role rather than just keeping a seat warm.
    So absolutely nothing to do with option 2 you put about not telling them and hiding your tracks then. You are right in everything you've said so far but all of that has been completely different to 'You don't tell your clients where you are based and you take relevant SecOps precautions to make sure nobody finds out.' Thats the point people are trying to make to you.

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladuk
    replied
    Originally posted by ConsultingTechArchitect View Post

    Does it need to be said that I am not telling people to NOT use their common sense.

    Obviously if your clients data policies have strong data sovereignty rules, you should follow them otherwise you are a walking data breach. There are plenty of organisations that don't demand their data is kept in the UK. It depends on the client, industry etc.
    Yes it does. Option 2 made it very clear you weren't telling them and going out of your way to hide it. Again, general rule is, if you can't tell your client you shouldn't be doing it.
    I don't work in intelligence or public sector, I work with clients who often have their data spread across SaaS applications based in various parts of the world. You can't say you don't want your data to leave the UK when it's hosted on a SaaS app in the EEA or US.
    Wrong. If a client has those rules then their hosting will either be UK based or been through a very rigorous process with signed off risks. Some public sector clients have very firm rules on data outside the UK but had to give dispensation for using data centres in Amsterdam. It's not ideal but it's the best they could do but it took months to get the correct sign off for it.

    Just because a client has its data not on UK soil they can still mandate no work or data goes abroad. It's about management of risk.

    Leave a comment:


  • eek
    replied
    Originally posted by ConsultingTechArchitect View Post
    More attempts to avoid answering the question
    So once again how does it work if you wilfully and intentionally don't tell people up front where you are working from as you suggested earlier?

    As before you started talking about yourself in the last 5 posts that is what you suggested the OP did in post 30
    Originally posted by ConsultingTechArchitect View Post


    2. You don't tell your clients where you are based and you take relevant SecOps precautions to make sure nobody finds out.

    and then again in post 36

    Originally posted by ConsultingTechArchitect View Post

    You can abstractly lump clients and agents into the same bucket here - all must be happy or unaware.
    Everybody in your contractual chain must be happy, or unaware, of the arrangement.

    Yet since then rather than say you are wrong you've talked about how it's not an issue for you while I've pointed out how it would be a problem were I paying you to do some work....

    And all this comes from a single point - few agencies will accept people working overseas because they don't want the hassle and the risk.

    And by suggesting to the OP that they try to hide their true location to the agency / end client all you are doing is adding risk and potentially an awful lot of hassle.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X