Originally posted by ConsultingTechArchitect
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Working from European country on UK contract
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merely at clientco for the entertainment -
Originally posted by eek View Post
2 isn't an option - it's a way to end up with a very expensive professional liability issue or a criminal record...
Your average retail or consumer goods client isn't going to be able to claim that you accessing their ERP system from Malaga is a criminal issue when their ERP is SaaS based and hosted in the EEA anyway.
As always, the devil is in the detail.
I've still got two clients in SEA that pay me a retainer to provide support consultants for their manufacturing processes. They are in SEA, I am in EMEA, the support consultants are in Manila. It can work.Last edited by ConsultingTechArchitect; 7 June 2022, 12:19.Comment
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Originally posted by ConsultingTechArchitect View Post
What's the problem here? There are three viable options.
1. You only work with clients that are happy for you to be abroad (plenty of organisations are scared of this).
2. You don't tell your clients where you are based and you take relevant SecOps precautions to make sure nobody finds out.
3. You work with clients in your locale (and accept the reduced rates etc.)
I'm not saying any of these options are right or wrong. I'm saying these are your only options.Comment
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Originally posted by jamesbrown View Post
No, there is one viable option and that is to work directly with end clients on a B2B basis, not via agents and not on contracts that look more like a supply of personal service where the client probably does care who precisely is doing the work and where they are located.
What you've advised is broadly inline with what I said except you're cutting out the agent that might not be happy that you're abroad. If any party in your contractual chain is unhappy then refer to my three options: do it without them knowing, find an agent that is happy, or only work with people in your locale.....
You can abstractly lump clients and agents into the same bucket here - all must be happy or unaware.Last edited by ConsultingTechArchitect; 7 June 2022, 12:41.Comment
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Originally posted by ConsultingTechArchitect View Post
Well that's provably untrue just by looking at my social circle alone. Mate I used to work with is sat in Lisbon working for his cosmetics retail client based in London. They know he's there, they don't care. It's through an agent and is outside IR35.
What you've advised is broadly inline with what I said except you're cutting out the agent that might not be happy that you're abroad. If any party in your contractual chain is unhappy then refer to my three options: do it without them knowing, find an agent that is happy, or only work with people in your locale.....
This is a 0.1% scenario as everyone in this thread has pointed out. UK agents will not, on the whole, work with overseas contractors and vice versa. As someone who mainly works with overseas clients, I know a few things about working with overseas clients. I have never had an overseas client via an agency, it just doesn't happen, partly because of the type of work they deal with, which is more about resourcing projects with people (i.e., people and locations matter from the start), not about finding suppliers to deliver products or services (i.e., people and locations generally don't matter, except when there is a compliance angle).Comment
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Originally posted by jamesbrown View Post
Stop calling me "mate", I am not your "mate".
This is a 0.1% scenario as everyone in this thread has pointed out. UK agents will not, on the whole, work with overseas contractors and vice versa. As someone who mainly works with overseas clients, I know a few things about working with overseas clients. I have never had an overseas client via an agency, it just doesn't happen, partly because of the type of work they deal with, which is more about resourcing projects with people (i.e., people and locations matter from the start), not about finding suppliers to deliver products or services (i.e., people and locations generally don't matter, except when there is a compliance angle).
Like I said previously:
You can abstractly lump clients and agents into the same bucket here - all must be happy or unaware.
Everybody in your contractual chain must be happy, or unaware, of the arrangement.
My three options still apply. Agent or client, it's really the same thing.Comment
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Originally posted by ConsultingTechArchitect View Post
I didn't call you mate. I was referring to a mate I used to work with.....
Like I said previously:
You can abstractly lump clients and agents into the same bucket here - all must be happy or unaware.
Everybody in your contractual chain must be happy, or unaware, of the arrangement.
My three options still apply. Agent or client, it's really the same thing.
As a hint I have contracts which state that data needs to be kept in the UK or listed other countries (Germany because I have servers there).
So if I was using someone and they weren't in the UK I would be beyond annoyed and doing everything I can to pin the blame (and costs) on the person responsible for the data and contract breaches.merely at clientco for the entertainmentComment
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Originally posted by ConsultingTechArchitect View Post
That depends on what's written in the contract.
Your average retail or consumer goods client isn't going to be able to claim that you accessing their ERP system from Malaga is a criminal issue when their ERP is SaaS based and hosted in the EEA anyway.
As always, the devil is in the detail.
I've still got two clients in SEA that pay me a retainer to provide support consultants for their manufacturing processes. They are in SEA, I am in EMEA, the support consultants are in Manila. It can work.
Other areas where it will not work as a lone contractor are ones that involve killing people or keeping them alive, i.e. defence & healthcare.
The clues as to what can and can't be done normally appear when you see the levels of insurance they wasn't evidenced and the amount of checks and certification required to access the systems.
…Maybe we ain’t that young anymoreComment
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Originally posted by eek View Post
And as I pointed out before unware is beyond dangerous and opens up multiple risks were it to be discovered.
As a hint I have contracts which state that data needs to be kept in the UK or listed other countries (Germany because I have servers there).
So if I was using someone and they weren't in the UK I would be beyond annoyed and doing everything I can to pin the blame (and costs) on the person responsible for the data and contract breaches.
If it wasn't clear, I am not advocating being the cause of a data breach in the same way I am not advocating for my kids to get hit by cars when i tell them to cross the road, I expect them to look first.
Like I said, this depends what's in the contact (and by extension, the client data protection policies).
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Originally posted by ConsultingTechArchitect View Post
That depends on what's written in the contract.
Your average retail or consumer goods client isn't going to be able to claim that you accessing their ERP system from Malaga is a criminal issue when their ERP is SaaS based and hosted in the EEA anyway.
As always, the devil is in the detail.
I've still got two clients in SEA that pay me a retainer to provide support consultants for their manufacturing processes. They are in SEA, I am in EMEA, the support consultants are in Manila. It can work.
Last gig I was working on was at a Gov agency. One of the contractors snuck abroad to work from France but couldn't get back due to covid. Client found out and binned him on the spot. They have a process for requesting to work from abroad which includes a bit of training and logging the kit etc so is perfectly possible but because the contractor did it without telling them he got the can.
The only thing to do in this situation is flag it to them and let them make a risk based decision on it.
Hiding it and avoiding detection is NOT a way to do business with a client. Security isn't an area you can shrug your shoulders and say it isn't in the contract. If you can't tell a client something then you shouldn't be doing it.'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!Comment
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