Reply to: Abandon principles and take £800 inside IR35?

[ensignia]

What’s hard to believe? One outside contract @ 720/day been in progress for a few months and an 800/day inside contract offered to me last week.

im probably going to say no to the inside - if I want to run two together again I need another outside.

I run two (sometimes three) simultaneously, and having one Inside means I don't have to touch the company coffers at all re salary or dividends, so it can just accumulate quickly.

It actually works quite well, and my £8k PAYE deductions per month make me feel good that I'm contributing something to society

[ConsultingTechArchitect]

Is the OP suggesting that he has a 720 a day outside in the bag at the moment as well as a second job presumably on similar money both in parralel?. So billing like 1440 a day ?

I find this difficult to believe

What’s hard to believe? One outside contract @ 720/day been in progress for a few months and an 800/day inside contract offered to me last week.

im probably going to say no to the inside - if I want to run two together again I need another outside.

[lecyclist]

I’m running an outside role along side this one @720/day with a 6 figure war chest so I’m not desperate.

Maybe I can stick to my guns and refuse inside work.

My partner also works her clients under our ltd so even if I stop contributing to revenue for a while, the business is still active.

From a tax planning point of view, probably cleaner to get another outside contract on a lower rate if necessary.

If it was me, I would take the second gig, salary sacrifice the lot into my SIPP (minus the regulatory minimum), and consider my options again as my annual/ or clawback contribution limits approach.

[NowPermOutsideUK]

Is the OP suggesting that he has a 720 a day outside in the bag at the moment as well as a second job presumably on similar money both in parralel?. So billing like 1440 a day ?

I find this difficult to believe

[Fraidycat]

Assuming i cant find outside work.

I might take as low as £500 a day inside if the work was interesting and/or I was gaining valuable skill i don't have. But only for six months max, not for 12 months. Ok maybe 12 months if the outside rate was £800 and the work was also good.

I would not any take any boring sounding inside contracts, not even at £800 a day. Not unless i had no other options.

[northernladuk]

I’m pretty clear with my clients - they’re not paying for time, they’re paying for milestones/deliverables and I decide how to use my time. This is why I’m concerned with inside roles.

Now that I can agree with. F all to do with principles. The model just doesn't work for parallel gigs.

[rocktronAMP]

It's hard to keep hold of those principles when you don't have a gig for nearly 6 months and you see the war chest take a serious hammering.

I won't have fond memories of the first 5 months of this year. Was in the middle of tweaking CV for a permy role then an outside gig comes along right out the blue.

Fingers crossed this one lasts as long as it needs to (6m) and I don't have to go through all that again, as mentally as well as financially not sure I could do it.

Good luck.

qh

Very best of luck qh with this gig then of 6 months (fingers crossed).

I know very well the frustration of being on the bench for months on end, constantly interviewing and having nah luck (the contractor's numbers game). I had experiences of the working contract gig supposedly being 12m, 6m rolling suddenly being cancelled to 3m.
The agent and sometime even the low-level management client promising the gig is actually rolling 3 or 6 months and then a political fallout: new CTO, new exec managment, bad tech, the client has lost the tender to such such. Equally, I had supreme success. I also had a gig run consequently 6 months rolling and then the investment bank had a rule about contractors can work up to 2 years. Best money ever in 2004-2007. (Bang the 2008 and everyone in the world knows what happened next)

This was before Off Payroll Worker rules 2020/2021. Contracting is feast and famine.

My advice:

1. Never trust (client / agency / acquaintances / colleagues),
2. Always be "looking" (networking)
3. Stay update with the latest technology (avoid legacy unless that is your proven niche - IBM mainframes Cobol and whatnot)
4. Practice empathy

As for inside IR35, well that new shiny Apple MacBookPro M1 2022 machine with 64GB, 2TD HDD, 16" display cannot be purchased on your LTD account, can it? With Outside IR35 you can expense it to your LTD.

[ConsultingTechArchitect]

Good luck running an inside gig in parallel. They'll be able to direct and control and likely to have set times you will be working. Doing work on other clients on their time is poor form. Arguable of course, some will say they got their money but the client will expect the 8 hours a day they've paid for, particularly on an inside gig. It's in the contract so it's pretty black and white.

On that reason alone I'd not take the inside one if I didn't have to.

I’m pretty clear with my clients - they’re not paying for time, they’re paying for milestones/deliverables and I decide how to use my time. This is why I’m concerned with inside roles.

[northernladuk]

I’m running an outside role along side this one @720/day with a 6 figure war chest so I’m not desperate..

Good luck running an inside gig in parallel. They'll be able to direct and control and likely to have set times you will be working. Doing work on other clients on their time is poor form. Arguable of course, some will say they got their money but the client will expect the 8 hours a day they've paid for, particularly on an inside gig. It's in the contract so it's pretty black and white.

On that reason alone I'd not take the inside one if I didn't have to.

[WTFH]

I spent 33 days in ski resorts this season
… and will spend more than a month in Spain this summer...

Carefully worded.

Going to a ski resort with your laptop, or “just doing 10 minutes of work, then I’ll join you” is not the same as going on a holiday. I used to spend 3-4 weeks skiing every year. Not billable days. Not checking emails. Not churning out brilliant code. But on skis.

Equally, working from Spain is not the same as shutting down and holidaying with your family.
Last time I took a laptop with me on holiday was probably Zanzibar/Kenya a couple of years ago, and that was to download photos off my cameras.

[ConsultingTechArchitect]

You’ve answered your own question.

Definitely not what I’d do, but I’ve no desire to be the richest man in the graveyard, I would prefer to have time when I’m not working, time to do things I consider important, time to spend with people I consider important to me, because money can’t buy time back.

The trick is, you only do work that you’re very good at. I can churn out high quality work in next to no time.

I spent 33 days in ski resorts this season with my family and will spend more than a month in Spain this summer plus the many weekend trips I do with the wife - there’s no need to be the richest man in the graveyard, you just need to improve your ways of working.

[WTFH]

I’m running an outside role along side this one @720/day with a 6 figure war chest so I’m not desperate.

Maybe I can stick to my guns and refuse inside work.

My partner also works her clients under our ltd so even if I stop contributing to revenue for a while, the business is still active.

You’ve answered your own question.

Definitely not what I’d do, but I’ve no desire to be the richest man in the graveyard, I would prefer to have time when I’m not working, time to do things I consider important, time to spend with people I consider important to me, because money can’t buy time back.

[ConsultingTechArchitect]

I’m running an outside role along side this one @720/day with a 6 figure war chest so I’m not desperate.

Maybe I can stick to my guns and refuse inside work.

My partner also works her clients under our ltd so even if I stop contributing to revenue for a while, the business is still active.

[quackhandle]

It's hard to keep hold of those principles when you don't have a gig for nearly 6 months and you see the war chest take a serious hammering.

I won't have fond memories of the first 5 months of this year. Was in the middle of tweaking CV for a permy role then an outside gig comes along right out the blue.

Fingers crossed this one lasts as long as it needs to (6m) and I don't have to go through all that again, as mentally as well as financially not sure I could do it.

Good luck.

qh

[rocktronAMP]

I’ve held fast since the IR35 changes and not taken an inside role. Just been offered 800 inside (12 month duration) and wondering if I should take it or not? My outside role is about to end and this role is on the table already.

Hold tight for an outside or bend over for HMRC and take inside?

What is the financial health of your LTD?

If you overpaid yourself big dividends, then 9 months will come back bit you on the a**e, me thinks.
Take care of the CT in order to the survive the RT with your wifey.