£90K net on inside IR35 stressful interim role - should I go back to permie?

[malvolio]

Thanks for the reference - I like the idea of a monthly or fortnightly Retro session to work through what worked well and what could've worked better. I'm going to get my PM to host fortnightly initially, then maybe moving to monthly if things get better. I'm also looking to try to move away from fire-fighting into more of a steady state mode, but sometimes again that's easier said than done.

Thanks for your thoughts, really helpful

If you're going to do that, frame it as a SPOT analysis (Strengths, Problems, Opportunities, Threats). It sounds all very management-speak (and will need a whiteboard, post-its and a team willing to listen!) but it does work and it does focus everyone's mind on where they are in the delivery. I've always found it far more effective that the usual PM milestone chasing and risks analyses.

[Fraidycat]

Hi All
I've considered resigning about 3 times since I've been there, for various reasons: bullying, people questioning my authority..

Within the next 6 months or so, I'm looking to start fertility treatment to hopefully start a family

Sounds very toxic, i would have quit long ago.
You could quit just before you start your treatment. Milk it for another six months.
Stress from work wont help you conceive.

[Bluenose]

It seems that going permanent will mean an effective halving of my net take home

From your post it seems that money is not the only factor, one of the main reasons for being a contractor is the ability to walk away.

If you cant walk away because there is no pipeline for work then you should consider going perm as the money you are getting will be used up if you have to sit on the bench for 6 months. The fact that this is 90k rather than what you want is moot, if you have no pipeline of work then youll end up taking the 90k role anway once you have burnt through all your money.

If the pipeline of work is good, exercise your right as an interim and get another role, get the contract signed and then hand in your notice/run your current contract down.

[PM Runner]

One option would be to hold a monthly or bi-weekly retro session with your team and all those working regularly with the team. Set up a whiteboard and pin on "what went well" and "what went badly". That way dissatistfied team members can vent their frustrations and you can come up with ideas to improve things.

Thanks for the reference - I like the idea of a monthly or fortnightly Retro session to work through what worked well and what could've worked better. I'm going to get my PM to host fortnightly initially, then maybe moving to monthly if things get better. I'm also looking to try to move away from fire-fighting into more of a steady state mode, but sometimes again that's easier said than done.

Thanks for your thoughts, really helpful

[BlasterBates]

Great rational thinking, thank you. I've tried to not have arguments and not get wound up, and have worked through this with a career coach I work with occasionally. I guess it's just not in my nature to do that, but I'm giving it a go.

I like the Conflict Phase reference - I am going to try to calm down, be it I have quite a confrontational personality I guess, so that's kinda tough. But nobody said life was easy!

Here is the reference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuckma...up_development

Disagreements and personality clashes must be resolved before the team can progress out of this stage, and so some teams may never emerge from "storming"

This is where you want to end up:

Resolved disagreements and personality clashes result in greater intimacy, and a spirit of co-operation emerges

Then you'll be able settle back and enjoy your job.

One option would be to hold a monthly or bi-weekly retro session with your team and all those working regularly with the team. Set up a whiteboard and pin on "what went well" and "what went badly". That way dissatistfied team members can vent their frustrations and you can come up with ideas to improve things.

[PM Runner]

This is a difficult project. My advice is don't have arguments and don't get wound up. Easier said than done but it is possible, it's just a mental attitude of not taking it personally.

I would stay in the project and learn to put up with it. The big bucks are always going to be stressful projects.

I would also point out that according to "organisational theory" when teams form they usually go through a "conflict" phase, sometimes the "conflict phase" though doesn't end. It looks to me like this is what has happened. So if you calm down and "dead-pan" you might put an end to it. If you argue and confront it will probably go on and get worse.

Great rational thinking, thank you. I've tried to not have arguments and not get wound up, and have worked through this with a career coach I work with occasionally. I guess it's just not in my nature to do that, but I'm giving it a go.

I like the Conflict Phase reference - I am going to try to calm down, be it I have quite a confrontational personality I guess, so that's kinda tough. But nobody said life was easy!

[PM Runner]

Who's to say that if you switch to permanent employment, your permie role will be better? You may end up in a role that is just as stressful and paid half of what you're making currently.

This is the thought that is actually stopping me from moving to a permie. I guess my thinking is that these levels of stress are not going to be good for going through fertility treatment with my partner, but you're right in saying that nothing guarantees that just because the new role is permie, it's going to come with lower stress levels.

Thanks for your thoughts, which mirror mine actually - although on the really bad days currently, the prospect of packing it all in and giving the middle finger to the psychos I work with is very tempting!!

[PM Runner]

Go back to permie, you will be asleep by 3:30 PM

Lol

Not sure if you're being ironic, but I've had permie roles where I've worked until 12am to finish work ready for a deadline the next day, obviously with unpaid overtime.

Swings & roundabouts I guess, but get your point - cheers.

[PM Runner]

Chasing the money till you are dead isn't a way to live.

I hear ya.

The money is enabling me to achieve things in my personal life that I've been planning to do for years and couldn't afford when I was on lower permie gigs, which is why I started the interim IR35 gig - including the private fertility treatment and saving faster for a mortgage deposit.

However, it does come at a pretty hefty price. The place is toxic and shambolic, though there are good factors aside from the pay packet. I've been there 18 months now, and have made a few friend/colleagues who have my back.

But it *is* getting to a point where even the pay packet isn't worth the hassle of having to continuously clean-up after others, including my own consultant and contractor team who continuously under-perform, and then being told I'm a bully when I expect people to deliver the service they're contracted for.

Anyway, ta' for *not* reading the full post & for your thoughts!

[northernladuk]

Too long so didn't read it all but there is absolutely no need to stay in a gig that is making you miserable. Period. No money is worth it and there are plenty of options. Some of which might sting in the short term but life is longer than that. If you go back perm it's not the end of the world. Just treat it like another gig. You could be there, 6 months, a year or until whenever you are ready to change. Use the training, career paths, skill up, unwind and then come back when you are ready. Income will go down temporarily but it's not forever. Don't think about it as the end of the world. It's temporary.

One thing we do know, if you stay on an awful public sector project it most certainly will not get any better. They never do so that's a given. You know what the status will be staying, just need to think about the benefits of leaving and remember whatever you go to is just short term.

Chasing the money till you are dead isn't a way to live.

[BlasterBates]

This is a difficult project. My advice is don't have arguments and don't get wound up. Easier said than done but it is possible, it's just a mental attitude of not taking it personally.

I would stay in the project and learn to put up with it. The big bucks are always going to be stressful projects.

I would also point out that according to "organisational theory" when teams form they usually go through a "conflict" phase, sometimes the "conflict phase" though doesn't end. It looks to me like this is what has happened. So if you calm down and "dead-pan" you might put an end to it. If you argue and confront it will probably go on and get worse.

[_V_]

Any thoughts? Given I'm writing at 03:30 in the morning, this stuff is keeping me up at night!

Go back to permie, you will be asleep by 3:30 PM

[PCTNN]

My opinion is that the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

Who's to say that if you switch to permanent employment, your permie role will be better? You may end up in a role that is just as stressful and paid half of what you're making currently.

I'd stay contracting and ride it out until the end and THEN think about what to do next.

[PM Runner]

Hi All

First post on here - I'm sure that similar questions have been asked to death since the beginning of time.

Summary of situation:

- Been contracting on an inside IR35 in local government since July 2020 - originally 1 year contract, extended by another year, likely to extend again until approx. April 2023
- I'm a project lead/project manager responsible for two major construction projects within a Borough in London - at a level between say Senior Project Manager and Associate
- I used to report to the Director of Property, but as my projects became less problematic after I'd been working on them for a year, I'm now reporting into the Assistant Director of Property
- Base Day rate of £600 with paid overtime & notice period of 6 weeks - I've negotiated the paid overtime and longer notice period after about two months of starting, given they asked me to take on an extra project to the original project I was due to lead
- Gross in 2021 was £170K & Net was £90K
- The role is very stressful and the place shambolic - I've considered resigning about 3 times since I've been there, for various reasons: bullying, people questioning my authority, having all the responsibility but no authority, my Director effectively not speaking to me as they've received 4 written complaints about my leadership/way of working: I don't believe I am a bully with people, but I don't tend to take any prisoners and am quite hard on people when they take the piss or disrespect me or my team
- Within the next 6 months or so, I'm looking to start fertility treatment to hopefully start a family
- In view of this and the umpteenth disaster on the project a couple of months ago that involved a H&S incident that could have been very serious and was caused by lack of proper site management, which I'd been complaining about for months to the main contractor - I've been looking at the market a little and have had two really good informal interviews for two permanent Associate roles
- The likely salary I seem to be able to get for an Associate role is between £70K - £90K gross.

I don't tend to share my salary either with headhunters or prospective employers, but I have told one headhunter I know well how much I've earned last year - and they're telling me that the salary is at the level of what an Equity Partner would make in my industry. The headhunter who got me the role I'm in told me that the Borough was struggling to find a competent person to properly lead the project after a string of managers who messed things up really badly, so they raised the day rate to effectively a Director-level salary to attract a higher calibre candidate, and they chose me.

The money I'm bringing in each month is the most I've ever been paid in my career, and is enabling me to clear debts that one of my parents left behind after they died last year, provide for my other parent, save for a mortgage deposit and also open the doors to private fertility treatment.

So what would you do if you were in my shoes?

Try to ride it out until the contract ends approx. April 2023 to maximise earnings as much as possible for the future, despite the stress and issues? Go into a permanent position so that I can start the fertility treatment journey with lower stress levels hopefully and have more stable life & income, be it much lower?

It seems that going permanent will mean an effective halving of my net take home, although obviously I have to consider the security, package & benefits value, holidays, sick leave, etc.

The Contractor calculators are telling me that for my day rate (which, considering overtime, hovers in reality around £820/day), my permanent salary should be around £150K. From what the headhunters are telling me, there's no way I'd get that type of permanent salary for a Senior PM/Associate role, and I'm not sure I'm professionally ready for an AD/Director/Director/Partner role which would command higher salaries.

Any thoughts? Given I'm writing at 03:30 in the morning, this stuff is keeping me up at night!

Thanks much.