Reply to: Moving into DevOps - have you done it?

[garethevans1986]

Yes currently doing DevOps, come from a background of .NET development and worked with TeamCity + Octopus Deploy for years. The current client is one of the biggest user of the tools above in the world....and has 140+ Dev Teams.

Working with TeamCity, Octopus Deploy, Docker, (lots of) Powershell, VSTS, TFS => Git Migrations. Unfortunatley using Azure as my background is AWS.

[cojak]

Just today's latest fad, by the time you've got your head round it and garnered enough experience to sell on the contractor market it'll be dead and gone.

I've moved a bit sideways into Puppet, my natural home is Unix and latterly Linux including automatic deployments, and that's what I always end up falling back on cos Devops is a load of bollocks and and I really fail to see what Puppet adds to the mix apart from a nice gui a moron can understand.

Last place I was at we used Puppet to make changes and had to warn the business that it will break things, something a script and bit of thought would never do.

There, I've said it.

Legend.

(I really wish it weren't so and it was like in the books, but when best practice meets real life, real life usually wins...)

And while devs may find it rewarding, once the shine and promises have worn thin, Ops rarely do.

<says cojak who's up to her armpits in the stuff...>

[Bluenose]

I can write perl and actually really enjoy programming but never had any real work experience with only ever done programming on my own personal project...

Cheers

Python and Agile skills training will not be wasted time.

If you can train to understand AWS+Automation+Hadoop toolset like Hortonworks I think that is a good thing to do at this point in time. If you are willing to get back to the command-line

From what I can see some companies have started to re-write many of their internally developed applications and plonking them onto a AWS platform using Devops tools and process (yep, chef, puppet, jenkins, ruby, alphabet soup) as a pipeline.

Some of the money on offer for such skill-sets, for what is simply 3rd line server support work, is ridiculous and I can't see it being maintained once more of the Linux, Solaris and AIX hands spot what is happening and decide to cross-train.

What I think we are seeing in the market is simply a hang-over of too many admins (Indian's based offshore are especially exposed at this time simply because there are so many of them) only being able to use the GUI.

The long-term rate expectations of such skill sets is therefore dependent on how many of these GUI only jockeys being able to train into the command line.

[quackhandle]

Last client co (bank) were moving into DO, in a huge way. After 8 months after the roll out there was no change in my working practices (all outside of IR35 natch).

IN fact they'd only moved 40% of the workforce into DO. All a crock of tulip if you ask me. I do the work I am assigned to do, if you want me to explain this every morning then fine. (I usually silently drop off the conf call or make excuses and leave meeting after I've said my bit. Time is short.

qh

[perplexed]

Will probably proceed like Agile in that when it started out it was with organisations who thought it through and decided it was the way forward for them. Then an ever increasing amount of organisations decide they fancy a piece of it, more often or not to find a solution for a problem that wasn't there.

And plenty just "adopt" Agile because all the cool companies are doing it, meaning you find their interpretation is really being agile enough to duck as the brown stuff hits the fan.

Still, can't beat the "feign interest as standup meeting lasts over an hour whilst counting to myself how many money I'm made by doing nothing" approach.

[SussexSeagull]

Will probably proceed like Agile in that when it started out it was with organisations who thought it through and decided it was the way forward for them. Then an ever increasing amount of organisations decide they fancy a piece of it, more often or not to find a solution for a problem that wasn't there.

[stek]

Scripting with a dorky name like Chef, Puppet etc.

One place I was at Puppet was doing one thing and overnight Ansible was reversing it out.

[northernladuk]

Anything implemented badly is a little bit "Emperors New Clothes", Agile, DevOps, <insert new thing here>

Those that do it right are well paid, and add value, those that try to jump on the bandwagon and do a half arsed implementation it is Emperors New Clothes, I have seen more of the latter than the former

I remember starting one client and being impressed with a load of posters and the like on the walls communicating new ways of working including much spouting about DevOps. Looked in to it further and the devs were in one building managed by 'X' and operations was spread out across multiple sites managed by 'Y'. Client puffed out his chest and said see.. DevOps...

[SimonMac]

I do wonder if devops is just a little bit "Emperors New Clothes" sometimes....

Anything implemented badly is a little bit "Emperors New Clothes", Agile, DevOps, <insert new thing here>

Those that do it right are well paid, and add value, those that try to jump on the bandwagon and do a half arsed implementation it is Emperors New Clothes, I have seen more of the latter than the former

[northernladuk]

Devops is like teenage sex.

Everybody's talking about it.
Everyone thinks everyone else is doing it.
Hardly anyone is doing it.
And those that are, are doing it badly.

Erm... what?

[Lance]

Devops is like teenage sex.

Everybody's talking about it.
Everyone thinks everyone else is doing it.
Hardly anyone is doing it.
And those that are, are doing it badly.

[northernladuk]

There does seem to be a bit of a shortage of DevOps people. Went for a permie interview a few months ago. Perm salary was excellent so I though why not - it was local.

Passed the initial interview - I know nothing about devops but they wanted someone to train up. Cracking I thought.

2nd interview was just a technical test and nothing else - biggest waste of half a day I've ever had. Test was purely devops stuff and building stuff. I had a vague idea but that was it so had no chance. Thing is they knew I had no devops experience so I didnt see the point.

Company struck me as a bit trendy and google-like. Seemed a fun place to work but maybe a bit too much. Certainly their recruitment ideas were a bit crap. I did point this out to the recruitment guy that having me do a devops test when I had never ever said I had any experience thereof was pretty pointless and a waster of everyones time.

I do wonder if devops is just a little bit "Emperors New Clothes" sometimes....

You didn't get the job so they seem to work ok.

[psychocandy]

There does seem to be a bit of a shortage of DevOps people. Went for a permie interview a few months ago. Perm salary was excellent so I though why not - it was local.

Passed the initial interview - I know nothing about devops but they wanted someone to train up. Cracking I thought.

2nd interview was just a technical test and nothing else - biggest waste of half a day I've ever had. Test was purely devops stuff and building stuff. I had a vague idea but that was it so had no chance. Thing is they knew I had no devops experience so I didnt see the point.

Company struck me as a bit trendy and google-like. Seemed a fun place to work but maybe a bit too much. Certainly their recruitment ideas were a bit crap. I did point this out to the recruitment guy that having me do a devops test when I had never ever said I had any experience thereof was pretty pointless and a waster of everyones time.

I do wonder if devops is just a little bit "Emperors New Clothes" sometimes....

[malvolio]

DevOps is merely Service Management done properly. Some of us have been saying for at least 20 years that applications are just another service and should be wrapped up under the same overall management regime. It seems business is finally catching on, as code production becomes more agile (in all senses), cloud services are making more of the traditional coding unnecessary and original app development is increasingly outsourced. Add to that the increasing automation of server farms and it all begins to come together.

So you don't move into DevOps unless you're an agency trying to fill roles. Most sensible companies have been doing it for ages.

[perplexed]

LOL well said.

Maybe we should start a new one call it maybe errm PRODOPS Or a cheaper version called BOBOPS.

BaaS - Bugs as a Service