Reply to: State of the Market

[SussexSeagull]

I once had a client like that. The site was so close to home and the queue in the sandwich shop below so long, it was quicker to nip home (12-15 mins) for lunch. Very early in the contract, first few days actually, I returned to the office from having lunch at home and was criticised for not attending a meeting, one which I hadn't even received an invite. Anyway, I put the guy straight, right in front of the whole office, telling him a) I'm a contractor, not a permie, so I'll take as long as I want for lunch (which was about an hour anyway), b) if he wanted me to attend a meeting, then he'd better actually make me aware of it, within a reasonable timeframe, and c) I don't think this is for me. Upshot is he asked me into a side office and I told him, look this isn't for me, I'm not your permie. Realising the error of his ways and sensing I as about to walk, he tried talking me round. I told him I'd sleep on it and give him my decision in the morning.

Anyhow, I did sleep on it and decided I would stay. Since then I was treat like the contractor I am, and a mutual respect was enjoyed from that point on. We did some good work together and I'd work with him again in a heartbeat. I've been invited back to that client on two occasions now, but he's moved on, which is a shame as I could do with a fourth stint!

I once had a client manager pick me up in front of the rest of the office when I got up to leave at 1659 instead of 1700. Got home and e-mailed him my resignation.

In my defence it was the last in a venerable litany of stupidity by the man and the money was awful.

[oliverson]

Started a new contract recently grabbed it as I’d been out for a while.
It’s not ideal but it’s work…
Been there a few weeks…I do a mix of office and home…yesterday client queried my timesheet said oh you worked a half day not a full day on x day.
I explained not so that I’d taken a late lunch been away couple of hours at an appt and made up the time over next few days…basically it was 2 hours if that. I was back online after my appt.

I also made them aware I had an appt would be away for a short time and I would make up any time….

Seemed weird and nitpicking! I’ve never had a timesheet queried ever …and I gave them the heads up…

One day I was about 10 mins late getting into the office and they seemed a bit off…commuting to London u can never tell with trains and buses…

Just gives me a bad vibe like they are watching me…

they raised it yesterday and it’s left me with a bad taste in my mouth…almost like they were about to ask when did you make up 2 hours…etc

can’t bin it off as not lots of work about but few niggles…they clock watch in office too…grim!no flexibility as in arrival departure times.

I do more hours than I need to at home as no commute but in office it’s weird and now the timesheet thing …seems petty!

I’ve been doing this decades and never been questioned …this is someone much younger in there 30s I think they’ve got an axe to grind …

I once had a client like that. The site was so close to home and the queue in the sandwich shop below so long, it was quicker to nip home (12-15 mins) for lunch. Very early in the contract, first few days actually, I returned to the office from having lunch at home and was criticised for not attending a meeting, one which I hadn't even received an invite. Anyway, I put the guy straight, right in front of the whole office, telling him a) I'm a contractor, not a permie, so I'll take as long as I want for lunch (which was about an hour anyway), b) if he wanted me to attend a meeting, then he'd better actually make me aware of it, within a reasonable timeframe, and c) I don't think this is for me. Upshot is he asked me into a side office and I told him, look this isn't for me, I'm not your permie. Realising the error of his ways and sensing I as about to walk, he tried talking me round. I told him I'd sleep on it and give him my decision in the morning.

Anyhow, I did sleep on it and decided I would stay. Since then I was treat like the contractor I am, and a mutual respect was enjoyed from that point on. We did some good work together and I'd work with him again in a heartbeat. I've been invited back to that client on two occasions now, but he's moved on, which is a shame as I could do with a fourth stint!

[SussexSeagull]

Started a new contract recently grabbed it as I’d been out for a while.
It’s not ideal but it’s work…
Been there a few weeks…I do a mix of office and home…yesterday client queried my timesheet said oh you worked a half day not a full day on x day.
I explained not so that I’d taken a late lunch been away couple of hours at an appt and made up the time over next few days…basically it was 2 hours if that. I was back online after my appt.

I also made them aware I had an appt would be away for a short time and I would make up any time….

Seemed weird and nitpicking! I’ve never had a timesheet queried ever …and I gave them the heads up…

One day I was about 10 mins late getting into the office and they seemed a bit off…commuting to London u can never tell with trains and buses…

Just gives me a bad vibe like they are watching me…

they raised it yesterday and it’s left me with a bad taste in my mouth…almost like they were about to ask when did you make up 2 hours…etc

can’t bin it off as not lots of work about but few niggles…they clock watch in office too…grim!no flexibility as in arrival departure times.

I do more hours than I need to at home as no commute but in office it’s weird and now the timesheet thing …seems petty!

I’ve been doing this decades and never been questioned …this is someone much younger in there 30s I think they’ve got an axe to grind …

If that is the game then you do exactly the hours expected and no more and don't be available outside of work hours.

[hungry_hog]

Started a new contract recently grabbed it as I’d been out for a while.
It’s not ideal but it’s work…
Been there a few weeks…I do a mix of office and home…yesterday client queried my timesheet said oh you worked a half day not a full day on x day.
I explained not so that I’d taken a late lunch been away couple of hours at an appt and made up the time over next few days…basically it was 2 hours if that. I was back online after my appt.

I also made them aware I had an appt would be away for a short time and I would make up any time….

Seemed weird and nitpicking! I’ve never had a timesheet queried ever …and I gave them the heads up…

One day I was about 10 mins late getting into the office and they seemed a bit off…commuting to London u can never tell with trains and buses…

Just gives me a bad vibe like they are watching me…

they raised it yesterday and it’s left me with a bad taste in my mouth…almost like they were about to ask when did you make up 2 hours…etc

can’t bin it off as not lots of work about but few niggles…they clock watch in office too…grim!no flexibility as in arrival departure times.

I do more hours than I need to at home as no commute but in office it’s weird and now the timesheet thing …seems petty!

I’ve been doing this decades and never been questioned …this is someone much younger in there 30s I think they’ve got an axe to grind …

Sadly seems you have a "work to rule" client. I had a similar client a couple years back. Maybe you have the same one (mine was a US bank which is not GS JP MS).
You need to play the game basically, their approach which I call "schoolyard".
At least it's work and in this market it's something to be grateful for, easier to jump to a better gig when you are in work...

[Bluenose]

Rober Walters share price is down almost 45% over the past 12 months. Tells you a story about the state of the market.

[Cookielove]

Started a new contract recently grabbed it as I’d been out for a while.
It’s not ideal but it’s work…
Been there a few weeks…I do a mix of office and home…yesterday client queried my timesheet said oh you worked a half day not a full day on x day.
I explained not so that I’d taken a late lunch been away couple of hours at an appt and made up the time over next few days…basically it was 2 hours if that. I was back online after my appt.

I also made them aware I had an appt would be away for a short time and I would make up any time….

Seemed weird and nitpicking! I’ve never had a timesheet queried ever …and I gave them the heads up…

One day I was about 10 mins late getting into the office and they seemed a bit off…commuting to London u can never tell with trains and buses…

Just gives me a bad vibe like they are watching me…

they raised it yesterday and it’s left me with a bad taste in my mouth…almost like they were about to ask when did you make up 2 hours…etc

can’t bin it off as not lots of work about but few niggles…they clock watch in office too…grim!no flexibility as in arrival departure times.

I do more hours than I need to at home as no commute but in office it’s weird and now the timesheet thing …seems petty!

I’ve been doing this decades and never been questioned …this is someone much younger in there 30s I think they’ve got an axe to grind …

[SchumiStars]

It's also a soul destroying job, so I think the people who get booted our are the lucky ones!

Need to be a good salesman/women. In the good times, I distinctly believe it's a popular business model.

Minimum equipment, little overheads and all based on providing a client based service. Once you get rolling, does not seem too bad TBH.

[krytonsheep]

The annual turnover of recruitment staff is around 40%, more for juniors. If they can't hit their targets, they're booted out.

It's also a soul destroying job, so I think the people who get booted our are the lucky ones!

[edison]

Re: Agents contriving work for themselves because of the State of the Market ...

Over the last few months I've noticed an uptick in the (apparently pointless) actions that agents are assigning for themselves.

I really don't wish to appear arrogant - I would be the first to admit that I don't know everything - but I'm left with the profound impression that agents at present are scratching around trying to find ways to fill their working days to justify their own existence.

Has anybody else had similar experiences ?

Agents might have got away with that pre-Covid during quieter times and when the industry was generally in a better state. However, today it's all about billing, and for more senior recruiters, building a pipeline of prospects and clients.

The annual turnover of recruitment staff is around 40%, more for juniors. If they can't hit their targets, they're booted out.

[hungry_hog]

Re: Agents contriving work for themselves because of the State of the Market ...

Over the last few months I've noticed an uptick in the (apparently pointless) actions that agents are assigning for themselves.

For example, I recently had a Teams interview arranged and agreed with a potential client (and the client helpfully provided the interview questions). The agent then wanted to have a "mock" Teams interview with me beforehand, to "smooth out any wrinkles which might possibly occur."

Aside from the facts that (1) over 30+ years as a contractor I must have done dozens of interviews (including over Teams) - and mostly successfully otherwise I would not have got the work - so I do know how to interview, probably better than the agent, and (b) many of the questions were technical and program-specific, and the agent could not possibly have any idea of what the appropriate discussion for those should or would be.

I really don't wish to appear arrogant - I would be the first to admit that I don't know everything - but I'm left with the profound impression that agents at present are scratching around trying to find ways to fill their working days to justify their own existence.

Has anybody else had similar experiences ?

I had a similar experience to this, but it was for a perm job at a European bank. TBF the perm process is different, but I don't remember it being this clunky in my permit days!
The agent would ask me a question and then record my response for the HireVue (video recording). If he wasn't sure of my response he asked for a "retake", it was like a BBC Apprentice audition.

it was one of the most awkward and weird "interviews" of my life - it didn't go further. Job was paying 70k (c.f. day rate of 700) which is lower than some of the grads (e.g. M&A) are earning there... I was desperate though as the contract I was in was hell.

[SchumiStars]

Ha ha.. yeah. I've been getting this more lately.
I'll part company with most contractors here, and say I get along pretty well with most agents.
They are just trying to get by, like the rest of us.

But I've been briefed by spiky-haired little doofuses too young to be my son on how dress and behave in interviews.
Most of them are capable of embarrasment when I tell them how many interviews I've done, and that I've been dressing myself since I was 4.

I think they just have a script they have to go through.

One of the reasons why I think the current frenzy is just hot air.

I have recently joined a what's app group which is headed by a recruiter for the masses looking for employment. It's actually well managed and run and there are posts for open positions. Over 700 members from various industries all with different levels of experience and education.

Actually the way groups are well behaved and managed and very positive. Its nice to get away from the super UK contractor I posted about previously and read some experiences.


This reads well.
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/richa...VCP6uRu6WbBbXE

[Dorkeaux]

Re: Agents contriving work for themselves because of the State of the Market ...

Over the last few months I've noticed an uptick in the (apparently pointless) actions that agents are assigning for themselves.

For example, I recently had a Teams interview arranged and agreed with a potential client (and the client helpfully provided the interview questions). The agent then wanted to have a "mock" Teams interview with me beforehand, to "smooth out any wrinkles which might possibly occur."

Aside from the facts that (1) over 30+ years as a contractor I must have done dozens of interviews (including over Teams) - and mostly successfully otherwise I would not have got the work - so I do know how to interview, probably better than the agent, and (b) many of the questions were technical and program-specific, and the agent could not possibly have any idea of what the appropriate discussion for those should or would be.

I really don't wish to appear arrogant - I would be the first to admit that I don't know everything - but I'm left with the profound impression that agents at present are scratching around trying to find ways to fill their working days to justify their own existence.

Has anybody else had similar experiences ?

Ha ha.. yeah. I've been getting this more lately.
I'll part company with most contractors here, and say I get along pretty well with most agents.
They are just trying to get by, like the rest of us.

But I've been briefed by spiky-haired little doofuses too young to be my son on how dress and behave in interviews.
Most of them are capable of embarrasment when I tell them how many interviews I've done, and that I've been dressing myself since I was 4.

I think they just have a script they have to go through.

[dangerouswhensober]

Re: Agents contriving work for themselves because of the State of the Market ...

Over the last few months I've noticed an uptick in the (apparently pointless) actions that agents are assigning for themselves.

For example, I recently had a Teams interview arranged and agreed with a potential client (and the client helpfully provided the interview questions). The agent then wanted to have a "mock" Teams interview with me beforehand, to "smooth out any wrinkles which might possibly occur."

Aside from the facts that (1) over 30+ years as a contractor I must have done dozens of interviews (including over Teams) - and mostly successfully otherwise I would not have got the work - so I do know how to interview, probably better than the agent, and (b) many of the questions were technical and program-specific, and the agent could not possibly have any idea of what the appropriate discussion for those should or would be.

I really don't wish to appear arrogant - I would be the first to admit that I don't know everything - but I'm left with the profound impression that agents at present are scratching around trying to find ways to fill their working days to justify their own existence.

Has anybody else had similar experiences ?

[oliverson]

TBF that is possible as the schools have broken up for Easter.

May as well go to the pub then.

Hopefully next week will see a return to action! The 'decision makers' back at their desks, new budgets to work with!

[SussexSeagull]

The bit of action I was seeing has basically died a death over the last week. Whether that's due to the 'decision makers are all on holiday' old chestnut I don't know.

TBF that is possible as the schools have broken up for Easter.