Reply to: State of the Market

[Cookielove]

Wow to yourself!!

I am describing in simple terms to you that where you are born is not your ethnicity as you asked if they were British born or not.

The analogy I gave so you would understand in the simplest terms is that a dog, cat or llama can be born in a stable that does not make them a horse....I used dog as they are the most common animal that sprung to mind.

It is saying what you see, not racist at all has become the usual retort/slur bandied about when you don't agree.

Retail store Primark where I am is staffed by Indians no ifs no buts.

Take your faux horror elsewhere, I am giving facts. I could say oh they are all purple, pink or blue but facts are facts.

[Snooky]

a dog can be born in a stable but it is still a dog not a horse

It is discrimination against whites clear as day if you have eyes in your head.

Just...wow

Really?

If I had any doubt you were pretty much the same as the racist flagshagging "unite are cuntry, protect are wimin and children" mob, you've certainly removed it.

[edison]

Just watched an interview with a senior Indian minister in Mumbai talking about the UK as our PM is currently there and how the highest number of those leaving are now in the UK, how wonderful it is for Indians lifting themselves out of poverty and now middle class in the UK was his line.

Back patting and how great it is for India; yeah mate but the flip side is it is not good for the UK we are going down the tubes due to cheap labour being imported.

It is not is just in the IT sector so many other jobs coffee shops, Primark, McD's youngsters can't get a shop while they study/at school as so much competition and once they get in they tend to only employ their own. My local Primark is a prime example it is 99% staffed by Indians. It is very noticeable no getting away from it.

They might be Anglo-Indians. Or there's a good chance they are Indian students/workers on the Post-Student or Skilled Worker Visa now having to take any job going because their visas are approaching renewal time and UK companies do not want to sponsor them in such numbers any more.

Reddit is full of endless Indians describing this experience in the UK and asking for help and guidance on what to do next.

Invariably the advice is to get any job you can in retail, food delivery etc and keep applying for jobs but be prepared that 95% of the time, you'll have to go back to India.

FWIW, I see relatively few Indians or Asians working in minimum wage jobs in retail etc and I live not that far from London.

[edison]

Just had a spam email from computer futures. TBF, it's more than welcome as I can't remember the last time I had one from them.

Starting year3 on the bench. Might find a new hobby.

I mean this in the kindest way but if you're now into your third year on the bench, surely there's no market for you? Your warchest must have been emptied, no?

[Cookielove]

New Visas are not part of the discussions, according to Starmer
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9wdzryk477o



Indians who have come over on work visas or British-born brown people? How do you know, did you ask them?

Oh yes Starmer the "king of u turns" I give you...benefit cuts, the grooming gangs inquiry, winter fuel payment, NI, International aid, gender.

His word means nada he changes his mind like the wind.

Probably a mix - they were Indian.

Ethnicity is a ancestry/race/culture not where you are born, a dog can be born in a stable but it is still a dog not a horse.

It is protectionism once they are in charge "diversity" goes out the window, staff, security, management all Indian by a country mile. No youngsters are getting a look in it is being discussed on a few parent/student groups as it is so noticeable and not just in Primark. Indians must be a dab hand at folding 50 t shirts that whites aren't up to it!

It is discrimination against whites clear as day if you have eyes in your head.

[edison]

I agree with all of this but the point in bold is the most important.

I've been benched for just under 3 months and will be starting the permie job bang on the 3 month mark.

My experience has been that I've had a number of interviews now, which I feel lucky to have even had, given some of the stories on here. Observations this time around:

• Multi-stage interviews are now very much the norm. For contracts. FFS, really?
• Coding tests are now pretty standard.
• Even if you get to the last stage when it's meant to be just to meet the team, believe nothing until you get the paperwork.

On the last point, as used to be advised on here, don't stop looking until the first invoice has been paid. Probably good advice.

While I could have survived another 12 months or so waiting for a contract to materialise, I just didn't see it as being financially viable. I don't want to unnecessarily deplete the warchest if I don't have to.

I may well be back on here in a few months with a different story because I just couldn't face permiedom. I hope I'm wrong and will do what's right so stick it out for my family first and foremost.

Back in the early to mid-2010s, I had a couple of contracts that required 3-4 stages of interviews, as many as any perm job I've gone for.

Luckily I got both and it's only been one interview in four of my last five roles.

End clients honestly don't seem to be too sure half the time what they want, hence multiple stages.

[Snooky]

We all know I've spent two decades working on a one-line macro

And you still haven't finished it?

[sadkingbilly]

see above

[ladymuck]

I've never had more than a couple of months bench time. I find it interesting that people don't seem to do much network building in order to use that to source work. I also have repeat clients who I'll do a stint with, leave and go back to a couple of years later. I have friends at one major client who tell me what's going on and, if I'm coming available, I'll drop certain people a 'remember me?' email to see if there's anything I can help with.

During Covid, I moved from working at a major airport to a pharmaceutical adjacent client the week of the first lockdowns and remained in work throughout. Luck? Maybe, but I had lined up the move in the 4-6 weeks before it all kicked off, not knowing what was around the corner. Both gigs came via my network.

I am no genius and I'm not even sure I pass muster as competent some days. We all know I've spent two decades working on a one-line macro. So if I can still be trading after 20 years, why can't you?

[oliverson]

I was out for a month during Covid so you being out for 17 is definitely a you and your skills problem - namely that they weren't in demand for that period.

I'm 52 so suspect ageism will kick in at some point but I'd day that 80% of my work in the last eight years has come from my wider network of people I have worked with / for in the past so perhaps this is a bit less relevant.

Back to rates again - 50% of £0 is £0 - my point is, if you need an income something is better than nothing. Sitting on the sidelines moaning that the glory days are gone won't pay the bills.

Not the case, I came hot off a contract writing microservices in node.js and serverless functions, both on AWS. Very in demand skills. I did decide to take a year off and do some travelling between lockdowns. There was virtually nothing on the likes of JobServe back then for a few months at the start. It was laughable. Makes this downturn look like a bonanza. I figured no work out there, IR35 uncertainty still (hadn't been kicked back a year at that point) and having worked solid for years on end. Time to take a break.

[Manic]

Getting such work isn't as easy as it was. Your local Tesco is going to employ an 18 year old to stack shelves ahead of a 50 something with dodgy knees who will leave when something better appears.

There are other reasons too.

Part timers earning less than 5k per annum don't attract NI rates.
Minimum wage for under 18 is lower than 21+

It's why most retail stores employ loads and loads of poorly paid under 21s on zero hour contracts.

[sadkingbilly]

I was out for a month during Covid so you being out for 17 is definitely a you and your skills problem - namely that they weren't in demand for that period.

I'm 52 so suspect ageism will kick in at some point but I'd day that 80% of my work in the last eight years has come from my wider network of people I have worked with / for in the past so perhaps this is a bit less relevant.

Back to rates again - 50% of £0 is £0 - my point is, if you need an income something is better than nothing. Sitting on the sidelines moaning that the glory days are gone won't pay the bills.

being an arrogant, entitled twat who thinks they're too good to work below £x/day probably doesn't help either.
like you say, anything's better than heehaw.

[Snooky]

Just watched an interview with a senior Indian minister in Mumbai talking about the UK as our PM is currently there and how the highest number of those leaving are now in the UK, how wonderful it is for Indians lifting themselves out of poverty and now middle class in the UK was his line.

Back patting and how great it is for India; yeah mate but the flip side is it is not good for the UK we are going down the tubes due to cheap labour being imported.

New Visas are not part of the discussions, according to Starmer
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9wdzryk477o

My local Primark is a prime example it is 99% staffed by Indians. It is very noticeable no getting away from it.

Indians who have come over on work visas or British-born brown people? How do you know, did you ask them?

[fatJock]

I was out for 17 months over covid then back in the game for 3.5 years. I don't think it's anything to do with 'me, my skills', just for most people, getting noticed in a world where there are hundreds of applicants, suitable or not, for every role within hours, and AI vetting CV's and auto-rejecting them based on some algorithm. Then there's ageism. I've only had two or three face-to-face (zoom) interviews in almost 6 years now but even so, when that zoom session starts and there's a bunch of 30 year old kids on my screen, looking at me almost double their age, certainly a similar age to their father, I have to ask myself.."would I want to work with my own father?!". So, whilst I can't even get a sniff of an interview at the moment, even if I were, well, you get the picture.

As for the market I operate, yes that's changed. The old world was London banking/finance but that was a while back now, in fact its over 10 years since I left my last such contract at a very well known asset management firm, and the chances of cracking that market again are miniscule. Out of the 'magic circle' way too long. I do have a good contracting friend who's gone back to a bank he previously had a couple of stints at. His rate is north of £ 800 inside. Now something like that would be worth considering, but for me not so, not that I could get back in there mind. Nah, personal circumstances, age, life, etc. means that ship has sailed. Away from that sector I'm seeing inside day rates lucky to get over half that mark, as I've posted recently.

I was out for a month during Covid so you being out for 17 is definitely a you and your skills problem - namely that they weren't in demand for that period.

I'm 52 so suspect ageism will kick in at some point but I'd day that 80% of my work in the last eight years has come from my wider network of people I have worked with / for in the past so perhaps this is a bit less relevant.

Back to rates again - 50% of £0 is £0 - my point is, if you need an income something is better than nothing. Sitting on the sidelines moaning that the glory days are gone won't pay the bills.

[SussexSeagull]

The thing that no one wants to consider is that no government of any persuasion can sort this out as places like India and Chins have risen and taken their piece of the pie.

Plus for the last few hundred years this countries prosperity was built on international alliances. Up until World War 2 it was the British Empire and more recently the EU. We haven't got that anymore.