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Previously on "State of the Market"

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  • eek
    replied

    Originally posted by willendure View Post

    In my case, I think it is actually Scottish income tax bands that are making the difference (practically socialism up here!). You don't get hit by the scottish income tax bands on dividends, only on PAYE. Higher rate in Scotland is 42% and kicks in about £6.6K lower.
    Wait to you see the Scottish rate when you go above £100,000 next year and your personal allowance is clawed back
    Last edited by eek; Today, 17:40.

    Leave a comment:


  • mattster
    replied
    Originally posted by SussexSeagull View Post

    I haven't had an Inside yet and obviously when I do - as sadly I am sure I will one day - it will depend on the daily rate but it has killed working away from home, although I could probably take a commute on the chin.

    Problem with commuting by train is going in twice a week isn't much cheaper than going in five days a week.
    That's the problem - you really don't save much money at all with hybrid. I'm west sussex and commute from Hants to Waterloo (SWR so much more reliable than southern). Currently 4x month but they want 2x week and ultimately 3x week (started on 2x month nearly 2 years ago). I've already told them that I won't continue at 2x week simply because my inside rate doesn't stretch to it. Catching the train 2x week is marginally less than a full season, but can be reduced a bit further by pre-booking specific trains. Later arrivals at my office are already bound by 2x week and many of them buy 2 weekly seasons a month and work 4 days out of 7 spread over 2 weeks, which is fine if you don't have set team days etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • Snooky
    replied
    Originally posted by willendure View Post
    The way I see it, going from contract to perm is like...

    "Hey, do you want to do this same job for half the money?"

    "Hmm, ehh, let me think about that for a minute..."

    "Oh come on, at least you get job security, you get to stay here forever!"

    "Ahhh, I'd rather stick pins in my eyes!!"
    Relevant Dilbert:

    Click image for larger version

Name:	1998-08-19-Wed.gif
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ID:	4285393

    Leave a comment:


  • willendure
    replied
    Originally posted by willendure View Post
    In my personal calculation I was working on an assumption of £1000/month pension contribution, and about £600 in expenses, and maybe around £100 in umbrella fees approximately. That all seems to put me at abour £200/month better off on the outside @ 450 case. Seems pretty shocking given that the gross earnings/month would be about $4K higher.
    In my case, I think it is actually Scottish income tax bands that are making the difference (practically socialism up here!). You don't get hit by the scottish income tax bands on dividends, only on PAYE. Higher rate in Scotland is 42% and kicks in about £6.6K lower.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheDude
    replied
    Manager has assured me he has renewed contract but not a word from agency.

    Last day the 5th March and if contract expires I will loses all access permissions which were incredibly tedious to acquire.

    Leave a comment:


  • SussexSeagull
    replied
    Originally posted by eek View Post

    remember I said without travel costs - as soon as an inside IR35 contract talks about actually visiting an office - the maths stops working unless the location is very nearby.

    When this was implemented (heck back when expenses rules were changed for umbrellas back in 2016) I pointed out that the end result was people would only be able to take local contracts if the contract was inside.

    other posters also pointed that out at the time as well
    I haven't had an Inside yet and obviously when I do - as sadly I am sure I will one day - it will depend on the daily rate but it has killed working away from home, although I could probably take a commute on the chin.

    Problem with commuting by train is going in twice a week isn't much cheaper than going in five days a week.

    Leave a comment:


  • eek
    replied
    Originally posted by willendure View Post

    To give a rough idea you could try this calculator.

    https://www.contractorcalculator.co....alculator.aspx

    That gave monthly £5,365 outside @ 450 and £6,148 inside @ 650, or a difference of £782 better on the inside one.

    In my personal calculation I was working on an assumption of £1000/month pension contribution, and about £600 in expenses, and maybe around £100 in umbrella fees approximately. That all seems to put me at abour £200/month better off on the outside @ 450 case. Seems pretty shocking given that the gross earnings/month would be about $4K higher.
    remember I said without travel costs - as soon as an inside IR35 contract talks about actually visiting an office - the maths stops working unless the location is very nearby.

    When this was implemented (heck back when expenses rules were changed for umbrellas back in 2016) I pointed out that the end result was people would only be able to take local contracts if the contract was inside.

    other posters also pointed that out at the time as well
    Last edited by eek; Today, 10:20.

    Leave a comment:


  • willendure
    replied
    Originally posted by eek View Post
    Unless you have travel costs you can’t be earning less on £650 inside than £450 outside.
    To give a rough idea you could try this calculator.

    https://www.contractorcalculator.co....alculator.aspx

    That gave monthly £5,365 outside @ 450 and £6,148 inside @ 650, or a difference of £782 better on the inside one.

    In my personal calculation I was working on an assumption of £1000/month pension contribution, and about £600 in expenses, and maybe around £100 in umbrella fees approximately. That all seems to put me at abour £200/month better off on the outside @ 450 case. Seems pretty shocking given that the gross earnings/month would be about $4K higher.

    Leave a comment:


  • eek
    replied
    Unless you have travel costs you can’t be earning less on £650 inside than £450 outside.

    Leave a comment:


  • willendure
    replied
    Hybrid roles - for me this is the perfect arangement. 2 days in the office, see people, get meetings done face-to-face. 3 days wfh, peace and quiet to get on with it.

    Inside IR35 - I am currently on 450 outside, recently looked at a 650 inside role, and I would actually be making less in that role! The difference is unbelievable. The only way I could do it (and I would do it), would be to take the inside role but divert the max 60K into my pension to lower the tax bill.

    The way things are with the "irrational exuberence" around the Mag 7 tech stocks is so much like the dotcom era. Except the market right now feels like the dotcom crash, since in the UK at least there is no accompanying market buzz. What will things be like once the correction comes? I am saving every penny I can right now in fear of things getting even worse for a good few years.

    Leave a comment:


  • willendure
    replied
    The way I see it, going from contract to perm is like...

    "Hey, do you want to do this same job for half the money?"

    "Hmm, ehh, let me think about that for a minute..."

    "Oh come on, at least you get job security, you get to stay here forever!"

    "Ahhh, I'd rather stick pins in my eyes!!"

    Leave a comment:


  • GJABS
    replied
    Originally posted by Unix View Post

    I'm not laughing at that, it's that you equate everyone to your own circumstance.
    I've had a thought about what I said. I think I was mistaken, actually. While it is true that there are some contractors who make £400/day, I now accept I was wrong probably, and that there will be some, and possibly many, who make a lot more. More power to their elbow- we need to celebrate and support this.

    Leave a comment:


  • edison
    replied
    Hardly had a sniff of anything worth going for in the last three months but suddenly five roles have appeared this week (contract, perm and FTC) and I've applied for one contract and one perm role.

    Some of the stuff I do is a bit niche, so for me at least, I can see some small green shoots of recovery. But not getting too excited yet.
    Last edited by edison; 23 February 2024, 16:12.

    Leave a comment:


  • SchumiStars
    replied
    March 2024 starts next week. The market is bad. I hate this. Starting to get more than a little anxious now.
    ​​​​

    Leave a comment:


  • edison
    replied
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    It depends on the clients attitude to the contractor. Away days isn't really control, there is a lot more to it, particularly around the way you work day to day and that's unlikely to change. MoO and RoS need demonstrating to really be a pillar. It's possible a client will keep giving a contractor work created MoO and RoS is generally just a sham anyway.

    So yes.... if there is a seismic shift from one way of working to another then yes outside to perm is safe. But in reality in a vast number of gigs (in the old days) it will be nothing but paperwork and the contractor/now perm just carries on. You'd have a very clear and different way of working, completely different to the perms to then move to perm to be safe. Once you've gone contract to perm the default assumption is they are the same and it's much more difficult to prove than it would if you were in an outside gig and leave. You don't have the focus or both sides of the coin in play if you get me.

    Unless there is a tranferance of liability in your contract but that's a whole different discussion.
    It is possible but not very common and probably less so now than a few years ago. I had an interim role as Head of IT where I had a lot of client restrictions placed on me e.g. not allowed to approve invoices, conduct appraisals or do other typical BAU stuff. We did talk about me taking on the role permanently where all those restrictions would have been removed.

    Leave a comment:

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