Reply to: State of the Market

[escapeUK]

I've been benched for almost 5 months now, running on fumes now financially. I've been on a couple of permie interviews, but trying to explain why I want to go back to perm role after contracting seems to be a hurdle I'm not able to get over. I've even got to a point I'm going for perm roles with salaries when I first started in IT in my early 20's. Is that a mistake, or should I just take it on the chin, take the role to atleast have income?

Can't you just say, at this stage in your career you would like the stability of a perm role? Holiday pay, sickness pay, pension, just list a few of the things that the interviewer will no doubt see as benefits they too enjoy. What you must not come over as a contractor who just wants to take a perm role to make ends meet for 6 months, even if that is the case!

[umeshk]

I've been benched for almost 5 months now, running on fumes now financially. I've been on a couple of permie interviews, but trying to explain why I want to go back to perm role after contracting seems to be a hurdle I'm not able to get over. I've even got to a point I'm going for perm roles with salaries when I first started in IT in my early 20's. Is that a mistake, or should I just take it on the chin, take the role to atleast have income?

[CoolCat]

The UK stock market is only up because the pound has gone down against the dollar, and any predicted dividends look higher in dollars with the new exchange rates... so people are prepared to pay more for stock with the same dollar returns

On the other hand any Brit invested in US stocks, will see they have gained massively in the last few months

FTSE ALL TIME HIGH! Meanwhile

“Today’s jobs figures are surprisingly poor, with a steep fall in employment and a sharp rise in those out of work, including an unexpected rise in unemployment,” Tony Wilson, the director at the Institute for Employment Studies, said.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...interest-rates

[edison]

The UK stock market (FTSE100 or FTSE250) isn't powering towards anything. Their performance over the last decade has been staggeringly bad (as per Reuters):

NASDAQ +388%
S&P500 +259%
Nikkei Japan + 138%
Eursostoxx +62%
FTSE100 +13%
FTSE250 MINUS 17%

The UK market weighting in the MCSI world index has halved in the last 15 years. It seems hardly any investors want to buy UK stocks and it's not surprising considering the dull plodding companies that make up most of the index.

Between the two indices, it gives a good idea of how UK companies are poor wealth creators and by extension, well paid job creators.

[dsc]

[...] including an unexpected rise in unemployment,”[...]

That's one way to bring down inflation even further...

[tsmith]

The FTSE 250 is a better indicator of the state of the UK contract market and it is still way off its high.

But in general the UK stock market is a joke compared to the US, Microsoft was recently worth more than the entire FTSE 100 combined, and you could buy the whole of the FTSE 250 as-well with the change you had left over.

Jobserve headline number can fluctuate quite a bit intra week as sometimes they seem to clear out the database and repopulate it, so some days it can under report.

As for references, you could give the annoying agent your previous Agency as the reference if you don't want to give them the end client.

FTSE ALL TIME HIGH! Meanwhile

“Today’s jobs figures are surprisingly poor, with a steep fall in employment and a sharp rise in those out of work, including an unexpected rise in unemployment,” Tony Wilson, the director at the Institute for Employment Studies, said.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...interest-rates

[Fraidycat]

FTSE powering towards 9K but Jobserve vacancies have now collapsed to 23K. Something has to give.

There's been an uptick in agents asking for references

The FTSE 250 is a better indicator of the state of the UK contract market and it is still way off its high.

But in general the UK stock market is a joke compared to the US, Microsoft was recently worth more than the entire FTSE 100 combined, and you could buy the whole of the FTSE 250 as-well with the change you had left over.

Jobserve headline number can fluctuate quite a bit intra week as sometimes they seem to clear out the database and repopulate it, so some days it can under report.

As for references, you could give the annoying agent your previous Agency as the reference if you don't want to give them the end client.

[DrGUID]

FTSE powering towards 9K but Jobserve vacancies have now collapsed to 23K. Something has to give.

Getting the occasional interview but it's one a week rather than two a day like in normal times.

There's been an uptick in agents asking for references (but the other candidates are supplying them). The latest is long conversation followed by an email with no job spec, just space for me to add my referees.

Not much on the boards apart from the numerous Noir ghost vacancies.

It kind of feels like 2002 when the general economy motored along but IT was in an epic hangover (and the FTSE did indeed collapse).

I will continue working on side projects...

[gables]

For permie roles it seems that "internal hires" is the go-to term these days. Certainly explains the amount of rejections even for close to perfect fits. Or so I keep telling myself

And tbh I think that's how it should always have been (i.e. give someone a chance of promotion\change etc and then backfill their old position) but the role shouldn't be externally advertised until the internal route is exhausted.

[SpliterOfLogs]

I'm another who was a contractor because it allowed me to take more time off, did that for 15 years. Pre-covid I almost never worked during the summer months, through choice, never stopped me finding new gigs. But it does seem like those days are over. I took a perm role in feb 2020 after 6 months on the bench, unfortunately it was in crypto, so that blew up by the end of 2022 - found a contract out of the wreckage of that, which took me to November 2023. Since then, nothing. Many applications but just tumble weed.

Still can't quite believe I'm seeing gigs advertised at rates I was getting 15 years ago.

But I do have an interview for a contract role today, so fingers crossed...

[dsc]

For permie roles it seems that "internal hires" is the go-to term these days. Certainly explains the amount of rejections even for close to perfect fits. Or so I keep telling myself

[t0bytoo]

I am another who went into contracting for more time off. Over twenty-five years, I rarely worked more than six months of the year. More recently, I did longer contracts but that's because of covid and looking after a kid.

The lifestyle was great but it did mean that I tended towards the tuliptier jobs that more professional people didn't need to take. Suited me fine.

[dsc]

I think Brexit has shrunk the EU resource pool somewhat, I was seeing quite a few Spanish - Polish etc, now not so much

A fair amount of Poles packed up and left, IT is paid really well in Poland (atm at least) so even with the constantly rising prices (property going absolutely mental) it's worth it. Plus you can do b2b there without any issues (it's pretty much the norm for employers to simply say "perm / b2b - you pick"), which is what a lot of IT people use to lower taxes / NI etc.

[edison]

Nope, I know very few contractors that used the flexibility to have much time off. I've met a lot that have wound down, finished early or have expensive hobbies in their later years though. So very few people taking breaks but plenty working a pot up enjoying it later.

Even in the good old days a break in your contract was a bit of a hump to get over. Plenty of threads even back then about how to hide gaps and why don't recruiters understand them but nothing like the problem it is now.

Dunno about the switching bit. I've seen plenty of contractors with a history of 6 months or less gigs and met others that have been 5 years plus with the same client. I don't see any change in that nowadays. It's only the tax regieme and the market that's changed the size of the projects and length of time to deliver them hasn't been impacted.

Some very wild assumptions in that paragraph.

I must have been one of the few that went into contracting for more time off rather than more money. I used to aim to take 2-3 months off over summer most years and that seemed to work pre-covid.

Now it's a lot trickier to be able to time it working full time. I have managed to have time off over summer since 2020 but it's been mainly due to doing more fractional work where I'm doing typically 2-4 days a week for multiple clients. Obviously most contractors won't fit that pattern.

Having said all that, I'm waiting to hear back on a 12 month full time contract offer and if I get that there will be no summer holiday this year!

[barely_pointless]

When you add in the agent fees, 600 a day ends up being close to 15K per month.

Some clients will always think they can hire 2 or 3 permies for that much.

And its true if they look further a field, my last three roles have had permies from Greece/Spain/Eastern europe and Mexico on the team.

I think Brexit has shrunk the EU resource pool somewhat, I was seeing quite a few Spanish - Polish etc, now not so much