Reply to: State of the Market

[SchumiStars]

At least your degree was free. Kids are coming out with £40K+ debt these days.

The Masters from Oxford I paid for using savings and did using annual holiday from work. Defo not free, although I did manage to get it for £10k/3yrs after some accounting magic.

Just checked, same course, is £70k in fees alone now. No idea how people can afford that TBH. But when the students are driven to lectures in a rolls, you tend to wonder, if they will ever use it.

Son has just graduated from Notts in Economics has not told me what his debt level is TBF however I suspect it will 70k.

[Fraidycat]

What was the point of breaking my face reading all those stupid books about software development.

At least your degree was free. Kids are coming out with £40K+ debt these days.

[SchumiStars]

What was the point of breaking my face reading all those stupid books about software development. I could have just partied and worked in Mcds if the end result is the same.

Right, going boxing to punch someone in the face. He doesn't deserve it but I don't really care.

[Cookielove]

It is grim ....nothing coming up jobs wise....you can probably earn more being an Uber driver....I know someone doing it and they make about £40 plus an hour and hours that suit...what has it come to that highly skilled iT work is decimated...and you earn more driving a cab these days

[SussexSeagull]

Yes, I think the contractor and perm markets are now highly correlated. And most contractor positions are now only slightly higher cost than hiring a permie over the short run. Contractor rates have not kept up with inflation over the last 25 years.

As several people predicted at the time it was announced and subsequently, Inside IR35 contracts have become a way to get cheap resource, without having to pay Employer NI contributions, with no employment rights. With a relatively healthy permanent and contract market those roles would mostly get ignored but people are beginning to have no choice now.

[CodeCobbler]

What makes absolutely no sense is that with all this tech world tulipe + low GDP growth pretty much anywhere, the stock market has seen some crazy % growth, 20% last year and over 80% across the last 5 yrs. How is any of this tulipe possible? how can it be so great yet so bad at the same time?

It means billionaires are doing alright, basically. Plenty of gaslighting from the media up until October but the US election results finally said out loud what everyone knows.

The job markets everywhere stink. I think IT is especially bad right now though. At some point these overvalued tech companies have got to come crashing down.

As I have been seeking perm work, anything, I don't think perm is in better a situation either.

[SchumiStars]

I have no idea how the stock markets work. In fact, I don't know how anything works tbh. I just want to write application code and do some sports.

Anyway, think I am giving up for any hopes of a recovery soon. I might try setting up an only fans account, perhaps someone will pay for my used y-fronts.

[dsc]

Depends which stock market or markets you are referring to. The UK FTSE100 index is up a mere 16% over 5% and a pathetic 24% over 10 years. The FTSE All Share index is practically the same.

Even in the USA, the index gains have been driven by about 10-20 stocks, mostly the so called Magnificent 7 tech stocks.

The stock market often reflects the anticipation of future profits growth, not current growth. There's no guarantee the huge increase in share prices in the US will be mirrored by amazing GDP growth either.

Yeah US stock market seems to be pushed by the big 5 / 7, but still, normally stock market growth and economy go hand it hand to a larger extent and I do realise it's anticipated growth, but with GDP growth predicted to be tulipe, how are the big 5/7 supposed to grow so rapidly anyway? We can clearly see now with economies doing meh and the cost of borrowing being high, no one wants to invest / spend money, so where the hell is growth supposed to come from? sacking whole depts and hoping for a better tomorrow?

[sadkingbilly]

Kier Starmer thats who: he was promising the UK would have the fastest growth rate of the G7

Keir Starmer 'is forced to abandon growth targets after disastrous Budget'

and? - you believe politicians? and the daily mail?
oh dear.

[edison]

What makes absolutely no sense is that with all this tech world tulipe + low GDP growth pretty much anywhere, the stock market has seen some crazy % growth, 20% last year and over 80% across the last 5 yrs. How is any of this tulipe possible? how can it be so great yet so bad at the same time?

Depends which stock market or markets you are referring to. The UK FTSE100 index is up a mere 16% over 5% and a pathetic 24% over 10 years. The FTSE All Share index is practically the same.

Even in the USA, the index gains have been driven by about 10-20 stocks, mostly the so called Magnificent 7 tech stocks.

The stock market often reflects the anticipation of future profits growth, not current growth. There's no guarantee the huge increase in share prices in the US will be mirrored by amazing GDP growth either.

[dsc]

What makes absolutely no sense is that with all this tech world tulipe + low GDP growth pretty much anywhere, the stock market has seen some crazy % growth, 20% last year and over 80% across the last 5 yrs. How is any of this tulipe possible? how can it be so great yet so bad at the same time?

[SchumiStars]

Anyone done a PGCE? Thinking about becoming a teacher.

[Fraidycat]

I don't think the permanent market is much better at the moment so it isn't contractor specific.

Yes, I think the contractor and perm markets are now highly correlated. And most contractor positions are now only slightly higher cost than hiring a permie over the short run. Contractor rates have not kept up with inflation over the last 25 years.

[SussexSeagull]

There is no recovery. If there is, 5yrs min.

Clearly companies have worked out, there are massive savings in IT but cutting the contractors out and they are surviving, perhaps even growing in this market.

Why would they reach the phone and increase their base costs, when they have waited for so long they can hire a permi, if they are that desperate.

The gravey train is over I suspect.

I don't think the permanent market is much better at the moment so it isn't contractor specific.

I haven't worked on a large (more than 10 testers) project in about 8 years. That ship has sailed to the consultancies. Up until now the economies of scale of getting in a consultancy haven't always been worth it for anything smaller than that. Has that changed?

[coolhandluke]

All I'm seeing is contractors being replace by tulip consultancies who provide the cheapest resource they can.