Reply to: State of the Market

[SussexSeagull]

There is no recovery. If there is, 5yrs min.

Clearly companies have worked out, there are massive savings in IT but cutting the contractors out and they are surviving, perhaps even growing in this market.

Why would they reach the phone and increase their base costs, when they have waited for so long they can hire a permi, if they are that desperate.

The gravey train is over I suspect.

I don't think the permanent market is much better at the moment so it isn't contractor specific.

I haven't worked on a large (more than 10 testers) project in about 8 years. That ship has sailed to the consultancies. Up until now the economies of scale of getting in a consultancy haven't always been worth it for anything smaller than that. Has that changed?

[coolhandluke]

All I'm seeing is contractors being replace by tulip consultancies who provide the cheapest resource they can.

[SchumiStars]

There is no recovery. If there is, 5yrs min.

Clearly companies have worked out, there are massive savings in IT but cutting the contractors out and they are surviving, perhaps even growing in this market.

Why would they reach the phone and increase their base costs, when they have waited for so long they can hire a permi, if they are that desperate.

The gravey train is over I suspect.

[Fraidycat]

what expected recovery?
expected by who, exactly?

Kier Starmer thats who: he was promising the UK would have the fastest growth rate of the G7

Keir Starmer 'is forced to abandon growth targets after disastrous Budget'

[sadkingbilly]

I just hear a list of events that will apparently need to happen before a recovery starts that happen then a recovery doesn't start.

I am not sure Labour winning a GE then producing a budget that didn't go down well with some in business or a Trump win should have been that surprising to anyone.

sorry i was asking the prophet of doom the question

[Cookielove]

It really gets my goat!! lazy agents don't want to put in any work...they want the candidates to do their job for them...perm role job you submit your CV, then they want a one pager covering letter highlighting a match with your skills to the job....surely that is what the CV is showing your skills...so that is a duplicate a covering letter spelling it out....then they want a document uploaded as to why you are interested in this role! This is so outdated....i'm applying = I need the money/a job...

LinkedIn is a pile of tulip! no meaningful jobs/searches and just more sob stories by the day....

[SussexSeagull]

what expected recovery?
expected by who, exactly?

I just hear a list of events that will apparently need to happen before a recovery starts that happen then a recovery doesn't start.

I am not sure Labour winning a GE then producing a budget that didn't go down well with some in business or a Trump win should have been that surprising to anyone.

[SussexSeagull]

That's what they said about coal, steel, ships, etc. etc.

Our lack of energy independence has caused problems in the last few years due to energy bills rising. Putin has used gas supplies as a weapon previously. As for the other two we won't know until we ever reach a point that we could have down with still having a steel or ship industry.

[SchumiStars]

That's what they said about coal, steel, ships, etc. etc.

TBF, most of those have all been outsourced. Face it boys we are clock faces in a digital world

[sadkingbilly]

When the recovery will happen is now uncertain, i was expecting April next year but the budget has thrown a spanner into the expected recovery.

what expected recovery?
expected by who, exactly?

[dsc]

The HMRC will get what they wanted. It's just they should have been careful what they wished for.

Isn't this exactly what HMRC wanted? they were always the ones thinking if you are a contractor you should pay the same tax as a permie not understanding that if you were a permie your salary would be half of your rate as a contractor thus tax would be lower than what you pay now. So now they just have a load of low paid permies, tax income must be down, but they have achieved what they wanted in the first place.

[Smartie]

UK Plc losing the ability to produce its own software is nothing short of a national scandal and is placing us at the mercy of geopolitical trends. And no, I don’t think I am exaggerating.

That's what they said about coal, steel, ships, etc. etc.

[tjccjt01]

This is so true, not only does it ignore your keywords, it seem to ignore any filters you set (permie or contract). It also allows you to click "don't show me this again" and then merrily show it to you on the next search.

Then there's the multiple "women in coding" and LGBTQ alliance roles. Should I even bother applying for those if I'm not a woman or gay?

The whole thing is an absolute mess, but slightly better than Jobserve which seems to simply have no jobs.

I suspect that Jobserve is applying search terms correctly and is showing no jobs when there are no jobs. LI is throwing back anything it can find to keep you on the site.

T

[SussexSeagull]

Software development as a entirety is much easier than it was before. We live in a world of shiny, fast, brand new.

Were before it was old, cumbersome systems that noone knew anything about and developers were required to make changes to it. Now it's a case of everything in the last period to have been brought up to date and those old systems are more reliable, less bugs and more maintanable.

There is no requirement for £500pd software developers, when Tata can give you an entire Dev team for the same cost.

It's horrible to think about but in essence there does not seem to be any recovery in the foreseeable future. We will be typing the same things Dec 2025, hoping, praying for a silver bullet.

For all the shiny new toys and methodologies that have appeared over the last 30 years, I don’t think software development has actually got any quicker because end users now have higher expectations and still have a tendency to change their mind.

Not really a silver bullet but I am not convinced there is a lot of software development projects happening full stop, either in house or off shore. If that ever changes, and one would hope pent up demand must become a factor at some point, we shall see how they are done.

Although to address your point, I (and I suspect others) won’t be asking the same question in December 2025 because I would have to be off doing something else then as I need to earn some money.

UK Plc losing the ability to produce its own software is nothing short of a national scandal and is placing us at the mercy of geopolitical trends. And no, I don’t think I am exaggerating.

[SchumiStars]

Software development as a entirety is much easier than it was before. We live in a world of shiny, fast, brand new.

Were before it was old, cumbersome systems that noone knew anything about and developers were required to make changes to it. Now it's a case of everything in the last period to have been brought up to date and those old systems are more reliable, less bugs and more maintanable.

There is no requirement for £500pd software developers, when Tata can give you an entire Dev team for the same cost.

It's horrible to think about but in essence there does not seem to be any recovery in the foreseeable future. We will be typing the same things Dec 2025, hoping, praying for a silver bullet.