Reply to: Double Billing 2 Clients

[BlasterBates]

Well if you can bill for an automated test running why not get a slower computer and then you can bill for even more. This is the logic of the argument.

You could get a very slow computer indeed, go to the Bahamas have a two week holiday and then bill the client.

Only in a fixed price contract can you bill an item like an automated test, a time and materials contract you bill the time you spend actually working. If a car mechanic puts your battery on the charger overnight he doesn't charge you 8 hours of his time, he charges you the ten minutes it takes to put the battery on the charger, and the next ten minutes to put it back.

What is there in a contract that prevents you from using a slower computer? the answer is nothing because a client wouldn't expect you to do that.

It's complete nonsense to suggest you can bill a client while something is compiling, or a test run is going on and you're at home with your feet up.

You can bill for the use of the equipment but not "personal time", because you are spending that time working for another client, and that is what the contract is about. A fixed price contract will give a price for the test and then if you automate it and you're quicker you bill the same amount, that's fine.

[Platypus]

If you can double bill and get away with it then of course go for it, the clients only care about you delivering, not micromanaging every second. If I could manage it I would have 4 clients and charge them all a full days rate because I can do 4x the work that average permie can do.

^ Agree

[Unix]

If you can double bill and get away with it then of course go for it, the clients only care about you delivering, not micromanaging every second. If I could manage it I would have 4 clients and charge them all a full days rate because I can do 4x the work that average permie can do.

[northernladuk]

If a project requires running an automated test suite that takes a long time to run, I don't see why you should not bill for the time it's running. You'd be billing if you were on site.

Yeah but the key difference is you don't sit on your arse doing nothing watching an automated script running. You are doing other work for the client... which in this case the OP isn't.

[d000hg]

If a project requires running an automated test suite that takes a long time to run, I don't see why you should not bill for the time it's running. You'd be billing if you were on site.

You'd be working on something else on site while the tests were running, unless you're so terrible a contractor you hit "run" and then sit gaping at the screen for the next 6 hours.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

I generally let common sense guide me on things like this. If you're biking for a "professional day" then that's a days worth of value whether it takes 4, 6, 8 or 10 hours. If your contract terms allow for you to bill for a day if you spend any time at all on a project, then by all means bill two clients if you feel you've delivered value to both of them on that day.

If a project requires running an automated test suite that takes a long time to run, I don't see why you should not bill for the time it's running. You'd be billing if you were on site.

As an independent consultant, you should be approaching the client and explaining to them that their long, slow test suite is costing them time, money and productivity, and here's how you can help them improve it....more billable work.

[northernladuk]

Is there a case reference for the legality of this?

I bet you know the answer to this . It's more a commercial issue than a legal one.

[TheFaQQer]

Agree with NLUK, if you're working at home billing for an automated test then that would mean contractors on site can knock off two hours early and claim the compile or their test is running, so they can still charge, or the garage mechanic can charge for 8 hours because he had the battery charger on overnight.

No-one will find out but it sure aint legal.

Is there a case reference for the legality of this?

[BlasterBates]

Agree with NLUK, if you're working at home billing for an automated test then that would mean contractors on site can knock off two hours early and claim the compile or their test is running, so they can still charge, or the garage mechanic can charge for 8 hours because he had the battery charger on overnight.

No-one will find out but it sure aint legal.

[northernladuk]

So if the OP is billing hourly and has an automated script that runs for 6 hours overnight. Does he bill for the 6 hours he is asleep? Does he buggery. I would certainly be making some charge for the reasons already been mentioned but billing for the hours it runs? I don't think so.

And it's not double billing, it's billing two clients.

[GazCol]

Here's a little more information...

I am asking about US law. I couldn't find a good US contractor forum, so decided to try here.

I am hourly on both contracts.

For client A - I normally charge my client for the time the automated test is running. They are paying for my expertise and I have to monitor the tests regularly. If there's a failure, I'm expected to triage, escalate, repair and restart testing as soon as possible. It's sort of a "firefighter" type role. I have other roles for that client, but usually get that done earlier in the day.

Currently, I do not double bill the clients at all, which makes for ridiculously long days. For the most part, my day is either working for one client or the other. It's only during those 3 hours that I really am working for both clients. I don't feel it's unethical to charge both for that time, but maybe I'm wrong? I don't want to do anything illegal and lose a contract.

TQ

I can’t answer, for obvious reasons, whether under US law if it’s legal or not, but if I were in your position I would definitely double bill for that period. I see my business as not just my personal service, but that of equipment owned by my company. I would run the automated test for client A on PC A whilst working for client B on PC B.

To be honest, until your question, I’ve never even questioned the legality or ethics of it myself.

[kingcook]

Watch the output of both automated scripts as they fly past in separate windows (stacked side-by-side).

Then you can charge for both.

I would

[BlasterBates]

no you can't bill for the running of an automated test as "time", but you can bill for the wear and tear on your computer and the electric bill as "materials".

If you spend time looking at the automated test, you can bill that.

[captainham]

But I do think the fact you said you are billing hourly is the answer to this situation.

Missed that part, which alters my earlier response somewhat. Bill for the time you've spent working for that client.

If we were talking about a day rate, I'd have a slightly different view, as above; especially if you're not rigid in terms of starting at 9/finishing at 5 religiously.

[eek]

I would bill both, simply because if it wasn't for the other client you would be billing for the time the automated systems ran.

And if you end up with only the automated client they may start asking why you didn't bill those two hours before.

However surely automated tests are well automated so could be run overnight