Double Billing 2 Clients

[TommyQ]

Hello,

First post, but serious question. I live in the US, but hope someone here can answer my question.

A contractor works for 2 clients. There's 3 hours during the day, when the contractor is running automated tests for client A and manual tests for client B. Could he legally bill both clients for that time?

I know in the U.S. lawyers can not bill 2 clients for the same hour. What about a contractor?

Thanks

[Ticktock]

Are you talking about under US law? Then no idea. However the principle is simple.

A lawyer cannot invoice 2 clients for the same time for the simple reason that a lawyer is charging for the time they are working for a client - they physically cannot work for two clients at the same time.

For yourself, think about what the situation would be if you had 1 client only, and were running automated tests. Would you be sitting on your backside doing nothing while the tests ran, and then bill for that time, or would you be doing something else for them in that time? Most testers I know would have something to keep them occupied for the client while they wait for the test to complete.

If the client knows, and is happy, that you are sitting on your hands doing nothing and charging them, then go ahead - charge them for it while you actually go and do something else. Unless your contract terms exclude you from working for someone else then all you are doing is running tests for someone else instead of doing a crossword puzzle while you wait for the automated task to complete.

[craig1]

Two ways of looking at this. If I contract with a business to perform specific work for me, I agree that work take 3 hours to complete and am willing to pay for it to be done then it's irrelevant to me if the company sits slavishly monitoring the work or doing other work on the machine next to it, I still get the work done to the quality I want. The company could even sub the work out and I wouldn't really care as long as I got the work done to the right quality.

On the other hand, if I'm paying for exclusive usage of someone for that three hours then I'd be extremely narked if they did anything other than work for me. If the 3 hour testing was start at minute one and then go back at the end of 3 hours then I'd be finding other work for them to do in that time.

It all depends on the contract. Exclusive usage = scenario doesn't work. Specific work = scenario does work. (Note, exclusive usage is quite blunt, if I pay for an hour of your time but don't specify an exact task then I want an hour of your time working for me and just me)

[tractor]

Two ways of looking at this. If I contract with a business to perform specific work for me, I agree that work take 3 hours to complete and am willing to pay for it to be done then it's irrelevant to me if the company sits slavishly monitoring the work or doing other work on the machine next to it, I still get the work done to the quality I want. The company could even sub the work out and I wouldn't really care as long as I got the work done to the right quality.

On the other hand, if I'm paying for exclusive usage of someone for that three hours then I'd be extremely narked if they did anything other than work for me. If the 3 hour testing was start at minute one and then go back at the end of 3 hours then I'd be finding other work for them to do in that time.

It all depends on the contract. Exclusive usage = scenario doesn't work. Specific work = scenario does work. (Note, exclusive usage is quite blunt, if I pay for an hour of your time but don't specify an exact task then I want an hour of your time working for me and just me)

/Direction and control alert......

But seriously it depends on the contract (once again). If you are billing hourly, it's more difficult. If you are billing by the day or professional day with no facility for half days then it is IMHO quite acceptable to bill each client for the same day. I have only ever been in a situation once for a single day where I was able to do that and was up front that the morning meeting would cost client A a day and the afternoon meeting would cost Client B a day.

[TheFaQQer]

Could he legally bill both clients for that time?

Yes

[northernladuk]

Should you bill? IMO absolutely not, if you have an automated script running you should go and do other work for that client. That's the whole point of automated scripts. If everyone at a client ran a script and then sat their with their thumbs up their arses they would get walked. Instead they get on with something else and multi-task. That's why they client want's to take on professionals to do the work for them. If you are paying a builder to do something and he can't because the the concrete is drying do you pay him to watch it? No, he goes and does something else.

Would you get away with it? Probably yes as who is to know so it's down to you and your personal view on it.

[tarbera]

Sure double bill

Hello,

First post, but serious question. I live in the US, but hope someone here can answer my question.

A contractor works for 2 clients. There's 3 hours during the day, when the contractor is running automated tests for client A and manual tests for client B. Could he legally bill both clients for that time?

I know in the U.S. lawyers can not bill 2 clients for the same hour. What about a contractor?

Thanks

Imagine a contractor dies on a fishing accident on his 40th birthday and finds himself greeted at the Pearly Gates by a brass band.

Saint Peter runs over, shakes his hand and says “Congratulations!”

“Congratulations for what?” asks the contractor

“Congratulations for what?” says Saint Peter. “We are celebrating the fact that you lived to be 160 years old.”

“But that’s not true,” says the consultant. “I only lived to be forty.”

“That’s impossible,” says Saint Peter, “we added up your time sheets!”

[TheFaQQer]

Should you bill? IMO absolutely not, if you have an automated script running you should go and do other work for that client. That's the whole point of automated scripts. If everyone at a client ran a script and then sat their with their thumbs up their arses they would get walked. Instead they get on with something else and multi-task. That's why they client want's to take on professionals to do the work for them. If you are paying a builder to do something and he can't because the the concrete is drying do you pay him to watch it? No, he goes and does something else.

Would you get away with it? Probably yes as who is to know so it's down to you and your personal view on it.

If they are paying for your time, then you don't bill - you aren't working for that time, the script is running.

If they are paying for your expertise, then you bill - the payment isn't for the number of hours you sit around, it's the expertise in being able to produce the script in the first place.

[northernladuk]

If they are paying for your time, then you don't bill - you aren't working for that time, the script is running.

If they are paying for your expertise, then you bill - the payment isn't for the number of hours you sit around, it's the expertise in being able to produce the script in the first place.

Indeed but the fact the OP is talking about billing for the time I don't read the latter in to this situation. OP has the opinions now which generally are the same so up to him to decide.

[TommyQ]

Thanks for the replies...

Here's a little more information...

I am asking about US law. I couldn't find a good US contractor forum, so decided to try here.

I am hourly on both contracts.

For client A - I normally charge my client for the time the automated test is running. They are paying for my expertise and I have to monitor the tests regularly. If there's a failure, I'm expected to triage, escalate, repair and restart testing as soon as possible. It's sort of a "firefighter" type role. I have other roles for that client, but usually get that done earlier in the day.

Currently, I do not double bill the clients at all, which makes for ridiculously long days. For the most part, my day is either working for one client or the other. It's only during those 3 hours that I really am working for both clients. I don't feel it's unethical to charge both for that time, but maybe I'm wrong? I don't want to do anything illegal and lose a contract.

TQ