Well if you can bill for an automated test running why not get a slower computer and then you can bill for even more. This is the logic of the argument.
You could get a very slow computer indeed, go to the Bahamas have a two week holiday and then bill the client.
Only in a fixed price contract can you bill an item like an automated test, a time and materials contract you bill the time you spend actually working. If a car mechanic puts your battery on the charger overnight he doesn't charge you 8 hours of his time, he charges you the ten minutes it takes to put the battery on the charger, and the next ten minutes to put it back.
What is there in a contract that prevents you from using a slower computer? the answer is nothing because a client wouldn't expect you to do that.
It's complete nonsense to suggest you can bill a client while something is compiling, or a test run is going on and you're at home with your feet up.
You can bill for the use of the equipment but not "personal time", because you are spending that time working for another client, and that is what the contract is about. A fixed price contract will give a price for the test and then if you automate it and you're quicker you bill the same amount, that's fine.
- Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
- Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!
Reply to: Double Billing 2 Clients
Collapse
You are not logged in or you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
- You are not logged in. If you are already registered, fill in the form below to log in, or follow the "Sign Up" link to register a new account.
- You may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
- If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.
Logging in...
Previously on "Double Billing 2 Clients"
Collapse
-
Originally posted by Unix View PostIf you can double bill and get away with it then of course go for it, the clients only care about you delivering, not micromanaging every second. If I could manage it I would have 4 clients and charge them all a full days rate because I can do 4x the work that average permie can do.
Leave a comment:
-
If you can double bill and get away with it then of course go for it, the clients only care about you delivering, not micromanaging every second. If I could manage it I would have 4 clients and charge them all a full days rate because I can do 4x the work that average permie can do.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by TheCyclingProgrammer View PostIf a project requires running an automated test suite that takes a long time to run, I don't see why you should not bill for the time it's running. You'd be billing if you were on site.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by TheCyclingProgrammer View PostIf a project requires running an automated test suite that takes a long time to run, I don't see why you should not bill for the time it's running. You'd be billing if you were on site.
Leave a comment:
-
I generally let common sense guide me on things like this. If you're biking for a "professional day" then that's a days worth of value whether it takes 4, 6, 8 or 10 hours. If your contract terms allow for you to bill for a day if you spend any time at all on a project, then by all means bill two clients if you feel you've delivered value to both of them on that day.
If a project requires running an automated test suite that takes a long time to run, I don't see why you should not bill for the time it's running. You'd be billing if you were on site.
As an independent consultant, you should be approaching the client and explaining to them that their long, slow test suite is costing them time, money and productivity, and here's how you can help them improve it....more billable work.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by TheFaQQer View PostIs there a case reference for the legality of this?
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by BlasterBates View PostAgree with NLUK, if you're working at home billing for an automated test then that would mean contractors on site can knock off two hours early and claim the compile or their test is running, so they can still charge, or the garage mechanic can charge for 8 hours because he had the battery charger on overnight.
No-one will find out but it sure aint legal.
Leave a comment:
-
Agree with NLUK, if you're working at home billing for an automated test then that would mean contractors on site can knock off two hours early and claim the compile or their test is running, so they can still charge, or the garage mechanic can charge for 8 hours because he had the battery charger on overnight.
No-one will find out but it sure aint legal.
Leave a comment:
-
So if the OP is billing hourly and has an automated script that runs for 6 hours overnight. Does he bill for the 6 hours he is asleep? Does he buggery. I would certainly be making some charge for the reasons already been mentioned but billing for the hours it runs? I don't think so.
And it's not double billing, it's billing two clients.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by TommyQ View PostHere's a little more information...
I am asking about US law. I couldn't find a good US contractor forum, so decided to try here.
I am hourly on both contracts.
For client A - I normally charge my client for the time the automated test is running. They are paying for my expertise and I have to monitor the tests regularly. If there's a failure, I'm expected to triage, escalate, repair and restart testing as soon as possible. It's sort of a "firefighter" type role. I have other roles for that client, but usually get that done earlier in the day.
Currently, I do not double bill the clients at all, which makes for ridiculously long days. For the most part, my day is either working for one client or the other. It's only during those 3 hours that I really am working for both clients. I don't feel it's unethical to charge both for that time, but maybe I'm wrong? I don't want to do anything illegal and lose a contract.
TQ
To be honest, until your question, I’ve never even questioned the legality or ethics of it myself.
Leave a comment:
-
Watch the output of both automated scripts as they fly past in separate windows (stacked side-by-side).
Then you can charge for both.
I would
Leave a comment:
-
no you can't bill for the running of an automated test as "time", but you can bill for the wear and tear on your computer and the electric bill as "materials".
If you spend time looking at the automated test, you can bill that.Last edited by BlasterBates; 24 March 2014, 14:18.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by northernladuk View PostBut I do think the fact you said you are billing hourly is the answer to this situation.
If we were talking about a day rate, I'd have a slightly different view, as above; especially if you're not rigid in terms of starting at 9/finishing at 5 religiously.
Leave a comment:
-
I would bill both, simply because if it wasn't for the other client you would be billing for the time the automated systems ran.
And if you end up with only the automated client they may start asking why you didn't bill those two hours before.
However surely automated tests are well automated so could be run overnight
Leave a comment:
- Home
- News & Features
- First Timers
- IR35 / S660 / BN66
- Employee Benefit Trusts
- Agency Workers Regulations
- MSC Legislation
- Limited Companies
- Dividends
- Umbrella Company
- VAT / Flat Rate VAT
- Job News & Guides
- Money News & Guides
- Guide to Contracts
- Successful Contracting
- Contracting Overseas
- Contractor Calculators
- MVL
- Contractor Expenses
Advertisers
Contractor Services
CUK News
- Streamline Your Retirement with iSIPP: A Solution for Contractor Pensions Sep 1 09:13
- Making the most of pension lump sums: overview for contractors Sep 1 08:36
- Umbrella company tribunal cases are opening up; are your wages subject to unlawful deductions, too? Aug 31 08:38
- Contractors, relabelling 'labour' as 'services' to appear 'fully contracted out' won't dupe IR35 inspectors Aug 31 08:30
- How often does HMRC check tax returns? Aug 30 08:27
- Work-life balance as an IT contractor: 5 top tips from a tech recruiter Aug 30 08:20
- Autumn Statement 2023 tipped to prioritise mental health, in a boost for UK workplaces Aug 29 08:33
- Final reminder for contractors to respond to the umbrella consultation (closing today) Aug 29 08:09
- Top 5 most in demand cyber security contract roles Aug 25 08:38
- Changes to the right to request flexible working are incoming, but how will contractors be affected? Aug 24 08:25
Leave a comment: