Reply to: Mileage rate petition

[NotAllThere]

A lot more, I bet!

I used to charge clients £1 a mile if I had a trip they asked me to do which needed me to use my car - I still only paid myself 45p though. It didn't happen often enough to be a proper earner sadly.

Years ago, I was a permie, and in our department we got overtime for travel time when we were out of office. Some other departments heard about this and complained, with the obvious result, that we lost our perk. Which was a bit annoying as sometimes we'd have to leave Sunday morning to be in the office Monday at 9am. However, the consultancy partner continued to charge fees for travelling.

Which was nice. Especially for the wife of the program manager, who held shares in the consultancy partner.

This is the same program manager, who, in order to keep his £200000 bonus had to make cuts of £1M. Which he duly did by cutting everyone else's bonus. He's currently sailing around the world. Hmm. Apparently near the port of Palairos. Look for the ship sailing under a German flag.

[ladymuck]

What mileage fee are they are charging their customers?

A lot more, I bet!

I used to charge clients £1 a mile if I had a trip they asked me to do which needed me to use my car - I still only paid myself 45p though. It didn't happen often enough to be a proper earner sadly.

[eek]

Mrs' employer (she works for a medical services company) was paying 20p a mile. (and she does 1000 business miles a month).

Worse of all they told their staff that HMRC would "make it up" to 45p a mile. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!
(I'm sure you all know, you get tax relief on any shortfall - in this case, you'd get tax relief on 25p a mile which for a basic rate taxpayer equals 5p a mile tax rebate).

Then again when she worked for the nhs and it was 45p a lot of nurses would never claim expenses because "it took too long". 1000 miles a month at 45p a mile for a few hours admin. hmmmm.....

Its been upped to 30p now but its not brilliant.

What mileage fee are they are charging their customers?

[psychocandy]

Mrs' employer (she works for a medical services company) was paying 20p a mile. (and she does 1000 business miles a month).

Worse of all they told their staff that HMRC would "make it up" to 45p a mile. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!
(I'm sure you all know, you get tax relief on any shortfall - in this case, you'd get tax relief on 25p a mile which for a basic rate taxpayer equals 5p a mile tax rebate).

Then again when she worked for the nhs and it was 45p a lot of nurses would never claim expenses because "it took too long". 1000 miles a month at 45p a mile for a few hours admin. hmmmm.....

Its been upped to 30p now but its not brilliant.

[ladymuck]

I need some new rear tyres, will check them out - thanks!

[malvolio]

Cheap tyres.

The current recommendation for mine are £300 a corner from Black Circles.

I'm talking 20 years ago (or last week, as I think of it...) But defo use Blackcircles these days, unbeatable service and prices.

[WTFH]

tyres at £250 pop

Cheap tyres.

The current recommendation for mine are £300 a corner from Black Circles.

[malvolio]

Yeah. Surreal that the more you pay for a tyre the less new tread and softer sports compound so you end up wearing it faster and the quicker you are back for another. The overall cost seems to be exponential to the cost of the tyre if you get me.. but that aside..

Yep to the rest.

The PZeroes or the Michelin equivalent were Z-rated and the only tyres allowed on it, or you risked invalidating your insurance. Believe me, I looked at alternatives and while you could get them in the right size, fitters wouldn't fit them. Later models had 4WD and traction control that worked, so were rather more gentle; mine could spin the front wheels at 60 on a damp road...

[northernladuk]

I used to do mine is a Volvo 850R that chewed up a set of front tyres (£260 Pirelli P60Zs) every 7k miles or so, when the rate was 40ppm. I was very good friends with my local tyre supplier!

The point is, the HMRC rate is not a fixed limit; if your car costs you 90ppm to run (as most do*) then as per HMT's quoted guidance, that is what you can pay out, free of tax - provided you have the paperwork.


* Just out of interest, according to a fleet owners page, a Fiesta is around 60ppm and a Range Rover 3.0D - so not the top of the range - is around 140ppm.

Yeah. Surreal that the more you pay for a tyre the less new tread and softer sports compound so you end up wearing it faster and the quicker you are back for another. The overall cost seems to be exponential to the cost of the tyre if you get me.. but that aside..

Yep to the rest.

[malvolio]

One thing to consider, and I'm sure you have, is that you have to pay some of that anyway. Insurance, tax, servicing etc. The only things that really affect the cost will be what extra the business miles put on which comes to a different figure so the 45p becomes slightly more attractive. Just basing it on petrol use is too simplistic but doing a full cost of ownership also leads to inaccuracies.

So you're average bod, medium miles, average family car is probably still OK'ish.

If some idiot (cough) decides to do their business miles in a tuned 3.8L twin turbo with tyres at £250 pop then they can't really complain.

I used to do mine is a Volvo 850R that chewed up a set of front tyres (£260 Pirelli P60Zs) every 7k miles or so, when the rate was 40ppm. I was very good friends with my local tyre supplier!

The point is, the HMRC rate is not a fixed limit; if your car costs you 90ppm to run (as most do*) then as per HMT's quoted guidance, that is what you can pay out, free of tax - provided you have the paperwork.


* Just out of interest, according to a fleet owners page, a Fiesta is around 60ppm and a Range Rover 3.0D - so not the top of the range - is around 140ppm.

[northernladuk]

Understood.

I looked into it years ago, and 45p per mile was sufficient to make money as I drive older cars. That still remains the same. The only way I'd be getting a newer car now would be a company electric.

One thing to consider, and I'm sure you have, is that you have to pay some of that anyway. Insurance, tax, servicing etc. The only things that really affect the cost will be what extra the business miles put on which comes to a different figure so the 45p becomes slightly more attractive. Just basing it on petrol use is too simplistic but doing a full cost of ownership also leads to inaccuracies.

So you're average bod, medium miles, average family car is probably still OK'ish.

If some idiot (cough) decides to do their business miles in a tuned 3.8L twin turbo with tyres at £250 pop then they can't really complain.

[Lance]

Yes, I do realise that. I was presenting a basic case, not a total solution. I don't even do business mileage these days. And it wasn't actually an arbitrary figure, it was a reasonable estimate but I wasn't trying to quote a precise amount.

The only way to do it would be to calculate the total cost of ownership and pay a proportion of that per mile for the business use. But that really wasn't the point I was trying to make.

Understood.

I looked into it years ago, and 45p per mile was sufficient to make money as I drive older cars. That still remains the same. The only way I'd be getting a newer car now would be a company electric.

[malvolio]

No. You have to prove the entire cost base. Depreciation, tyres, oil, servicing, insurance, tax etc. etc.
And factor in personal use. Then you can claim it at the COST of running it, not an arbitrary figure.

And you will have to put any extra money paid over the AMAP rate on a P11d.

Yes, I do realise that. I was presenting a basic case, not a total solution. I don't even do business mileage these days. And it wasn't actually an arbitrary figure, it was a reasonable estimate but I wasn't trying to quote a precise amount.

The only way to do it would be to calculate the total cost of ownership and pay a proportion of that per mile for the business use. But that really wasn't the point I was trying to make.

[Lance]

So another perfect example of HMT only thinking in terms of employer and employee. What they are saying is that the AMAP rate can be anything the employing company decides on, without a tax penalty, provided proof of expenditure is shown....

That means then that MyCo can pay the full cost of running my car less personal mileage provided I can demonstrate that the miles travelled are genuine and that al least that amount of fuel has been purchased. That includes servicing (presumably in proportion to business/personal mileage) and depreciation.

So if MyCo pays me 97.6p a mile, I log my business miles accurately (always have done, in fact) and provide receipts, I'm covered....

No. You have to prove the entire cost base. Depreciation, tyres, oil, servicing, insurance, tax etc. etc.
And factor in personal use. Then you can claim it at the COST of running it, not an arbitrary figure.

And you will have to put any extra money paid over the AMAP rate on a P11d.

[ladymuck]

So another perfect example of HMT only thinking in terms of employer and employee. What they are saying is that the AMAP rate can be anything the employing company decides on, without a tax penalty, provided proof of expenditure is shown....

That means then that MyCo can pay the full cost of running my car less personal mileage provided I can demonstrate that the miles travelled are genuine and that al least that amount of fuel has been purchased. That includes servicing (presumably in proportion to business/personal mileage) and depreciation.

So if MyCo pays me 97.6p a mile, I log my business miles accurately (always have done, in fact) and provide receipts, I'm covered....

So one way you could calculate the pence per mile due is to keep all the receipts for petrol and maintenance throughout the year, log all business and personal mileage then work out the pence per mile it cost to run the car for the total miles driven and then expense the business mileage at that rate.