Reply to: Company phones, BYOD phone policies, etc

[d000hg]

90% of the clients you have had in your roles.

And 90% of everyone else.

[ladymuck]

90% of the clients you have had in your roles.

Back when there used to be a 'Freelance Friday' meet up each month in Glasgow, I once met a couple who were Aussie freelance developers who were on a bit of a world tour. They could work anywhere, any time so were seeing various parts of the world and working at the same time. Their client at the time was in the US and really liked that the couple would do work, release it and the the company could test it etc and then leave feedback that would be magically dealt with when they got up the next day. The couple turned up in the US for a stint and their client really didn't like that they were working the same hours as them as it messed up their routine!

[SueEllen]

90% of clients expect core working hours/availability of 1000 - 1600.
They also expect a 'professional working day' of effort for every day paid.

90% of the clients you have had in your roles.

[Lance]

And to add to that there is nothing wrong with the contractor working hours being aligned with the clients out of professional courtesy and need. No good a contractor dictating their own hours when they are a part of a team on shift or service desk hours.

90% of clients expect core working hours/availability of 1000 - 1600.
They also expect a 'professional working day' of effort for every day paid.

[northernladuk]

Not at all. You picked up on the term "working hours", thinking you were being smart and talking about an employer's working hours. A contractor can also have working hours, such as deciding on a Friday to start at 7:30am, taking the dog for lunchtime walks, and rejecting meeting requests when they don't suit my working hours.

Just because a term means something to you doesn't mean it has the same meaning to everyone else, and remember, the person who originally used the term was talking about her choice of working hours, so your attempted gotcha kinda backfired in your face.

And to add to that there is nothing wrong with the contractor working hours being aligned with the clients out of professional courtesy and need. No good a contractor dictating their own hours when they are a part of a team on shift or service desk hours.

[ladymuck]

Classic moving of the goalposts. My response was to the term 'Working hours', which points to employment.

If someone came on here and said they switched off their phone at 5pm you and the other clowns on here who think they're some kind of authority would be shouting 'sockie' or some other nonsense term at them.

As WTFH says, working hours means the hours you choose to work. Freelancers will choose hours to suit both them and their clients and some employees work with enlightened companies who support flexi-hours and don't assume being present means being productive. It is logical that most of the time your working hours will align with traditional office hours. However, that is a not a complete given and to believe that having hours within which you typically work makes you a disguised employee is utter nonsense.

No-one here would say turning your phone off at 5pm was a bad thing. However, if you turn off your phone at 5pm but you've agreed with your client to be on call until 8pm then that would be a bad thing.

[WTFH]

Classic moving of the goalposts. My response was to the term 'Working hours', which points to employment.

Not at all. You picked up on the term "working hours", thinking you were being smart and talking about an employer's working hours. A contractor can also have working hours, such as deciding on a Friday to start at 7:30am, taking the dog for lunchtime walks, and rejecting meeting requests when they don't suit my working hours.

Just because a term means something to you doesn't mean it has the same meaning to everyone else, and remember, the person who originally used the term was talking about her choice of working hours, so your attempted gotcha kinda backfired in your face.

[ensignia]

Do you know the difference between what you want to consider working hours and what the client considers it to be?
If I have fulfilled my contractual duties and turn off the phone at 2pm, then I can do that as a contractor.
Employees are expected to work the hours their employer tells them, and may be expected to be contactable outside those hours.

It's a big difference, but you don't get it, do you?

Classic moving of the goalposts. My response was to the term 'Working hours', which points to employment.

If someone came on here and said they switched off their phone at 5pm you and the other clowns on here who think they're some kind of authority would be shouting 'sockie' or some other nonsense term at them.

[malvolio]

I'm not really concerned for my privacy or my device just not sure how I feel being directed what I have to do with my personal device.
Of course if the client is of the view "it's only if you WANT" work stuff on your phone it because something of a non-issue. I don't mind the odd message or email out of work hours but it's no skin off my nose if I can't. It's handy my phone gives me reminders before/after the work day of meetings tomorrow I suppose.

It's not actually about you though. 99% of BYOD rules are there to protect the client network, not your data. Allowing their data and comms to be accessible from your uncontrolled (to their eyes) device is an avoidable risk. All the software does is partition off your device so their data and remote access capabilities are protected in its own area, inaccessible to your social media and similar apps. You get notifications, but they are from their systems, not yours; your phone is merely a dumb output device.

But as has been said, if you want BYOD access without compromising your kit, get a PAYG burner. It's not like they're expensive, and they are reusable.

[d000hg]

I am guessing you are being asked to install InTune (sounds like you are a MS house), it will get some details about your device, model number, OS version etc.

It will get access to the apps from the company app store you install but nothing else

I'm not really concerned for my privacy or my device just not sure how I feel being directed what I have to do with my personal device.
Of course if the client is of the view "it's only if you WANT" work stuff on your phone it because something of a non-issue. I don't mind the odd message or email out of work hours but it's no skin off my nose if I can't. It's handy my phone gives me reminders before/after the work day of meetings tomorrow I suppose.

[SimonMac]

I am guessing you are being asked to install InTune (sounds like you are a MS house), it will get some details about your device, model number, OS version etc.

It will get access to the apps from the company app store you install but nothing else

[Lance]

I have no issue with authenticator apps; I have two (MS and Google) already. That's no different, in my view, to carrying around those little RSA key fob things that used to generate a number for VPN authentication (and other stuff). I wouldn't expect a client to demand lock down of your phone using their MDM solution to run that.

if the authenticator app is locked down then you cannot authenticate until you've authenticated. Hence that app is not (should not) be subject to MDM lockdown controls.
Intune/Azure AD will not allow admins to MDM control the authenticator app for this reason.

[ladymuck]

The only mandatory app I have is an authenticator required to access VPNs. I haven't asked if I can run that on an unsecured phone

I have no issue with authenticator apps; I have two (MS and Google) already. That's no different, in my view, to carrying around those little RSA key fob things that used to generate a number for VPN authentication (and other stuff). I wouldn't expect a client to demand lock down of your phone using their MDM solution to run that.

[WTFH]

I don't want to be contacted outside working hours so I'd be interested to know what it is that the client thinks I need to install in order to fulfil my contractual duties.

Thought we were all independent contractors on here, and not disguised employees

Do you know the difference between what you want to consider working hours and what the client considers it to be?
If I have fulfilled my contractual duties and turn off the phone at 2pm, then I can do that as a contractor.
Employees are expected to work the hours their employer tells them, and may be expected to be contactable outside those hours.

It's a big difference, but you don't get it, do you?

[ensignia]

I don't want to be contacted outside working hours so I'd be interested to know what it is that the client thinks I need to install in order to fulfil my contractual duties.

Thought we were all independent contractors on here, and not disguised employees