Reply to: Best route to electric car?

[northernladuk]

Thanks NLUK and Saptastic,

I guess it was wishful thinking on my part. I did see that BIK rates were published for a few years - I guess this ties in with most people leasing cars for 2-3 years so can budget for these years. But makes it difficult if you were looking to buy a car to keep for 5yrs+ and were enticed by the initial 100% CT write down and 0-1% BIK rates.

I reckon we will get back to the point where it's unattractive to have a car via the company again. They'll just pick and pick at the rate until its back to business as usual. No discounts, no benefits etc just as we are now. I would guess that's quite a way off though but once electric is the new norm my bet is the BIK will be back to norm as well. Some good discounts now but the price of them is too much for most.

[gazelle]

Thanks NLUK and Saptastic,

I guess it was wishful thinking on my part. I did see that BIK rates were published for a few years - I guess this ties in with most people leasing cars for 2-3 years so can budget for these years. But makes it difficult if you were looking to buy a car to keep for 5yrs+ and were enticed by the initial 100% CT write down and 0-1% BIK rates.

[saptastic]

Can someone help clarify a query on BIK rates - If you bought an EV in 2020/21 where BIK is 0% - is this the BIK you will pay for as long as you have the car or do you pay the BIK rate for the year you are in i.e. currently 2021/22 has BIK rate of 1%. Something I've not been able to find an answer for.

So if you bought a car in 2020/21 where BIK is 0% - but then in later years chancellor increases BIK to 10% - would you then have to pay BIK at 0% (i.e. the year you bought the car) or the BIK rate for that year e.g. 10% - If it is the latter - then I guess you are at the mercy of the chancellor - as you would not know what the BIK rates might be in future years - though they maybe quite attractive and enticing at the moment.

If you buy the car in 20/21 where BIK is 0% it doesnt stay on 0% for the duration you have the car

It changes every year depending on what the tax rates are set at

So you could have an electric car in year 1 at 0% and in year 3 the chancellor changes it to all cars a minimum of 10% - then you pay 10%
Normally rates are set a few years in advance so shouldnt be big surprises instantly

[northernladuk]

Can someone help clarify a query on BIK rates - If you bought an EV in 2020/21 where BIK is 0% - is this the BIK you will pay for as long as you have the car or do you pay the BIK rate for the year you are in i.e. currently 2021/22 has BIK rate of 1%. Something I've not been able to find an answer for.

So if you bought a car in 2020/21 where BIK is 0% - but then in later years chancellor increases BIK to 10% - would you then have to pay BIK at 0% (i.e. the year you bought the car) or the BIK rate for that year e.g. 10% - If it is the latter - then I guess you are at the mercy of the chancellor - as you would not know what the BIK rates might be in future years - though they maybe quite attractive and enticing at the moment.

https://www.parkers.co.uk/company-cars/what-is-bik/

You are at the mercy and he WILL come calling. When they are raiding everything they can, fags, alcohol, fuel and whatever you can bet your bottom dollar 3% BIK will be far too tempting to miss.

[gazelle]

Can someone help clarify a query on BIK rates - If you bought an EV in 2020/21 where BIK is 0% - is this the BIK you will pay for as long as you have the car or do you pay the BIK rate for the year you are in i.e. currently 2021/22 has BIK rate of 1%. Something I've not been able to find an answer for.

So if you bought a car in 2020/21 where BIK is 0% - but then in later years chancellor increases BIK to 10% - would you then have to pay BIK at 0% (i.e. the year you bought the car) or the BIK rate for that year e.g. 10% - If it is the latter - then I guess you are at the mercy of the chancellor - as you would not know what the BIK rates might be in future years - though they maybe quite attractive and enticing at the moment.

[WTFH]

May I suggest you do some proper research on the production of hydrogen, its conversion to a non gaseous state, storeage and it's efficiency whether as a compressed fuel or via a fuel cell? Hydrogen as a fuel is best suited to larger vehicles that do not need, quick delivery of speed changes as cars do. HGVs, trains and even ships are better vehicles for it.

11,000 units is a tiny number. 8,000 a year is miniscule.

I've done research. I'm not talking about efficiency, production, storages etc, but your claim that there was a Toyota demo car.
Basic maths tells me that 11,000 is 11,000 times more than one.

Oh, and here's a list of well known manufacturers, across ALL their models are on track for sales less than 11,000 in the UK this year:

Alfa Romeo

Bentley

Jeep

Maserati

Mitsubishi

Subaru

[TheDogsNads]

Your source for this?

Perhaps in some backwater areas it's a non-starter, but the "demo vehicle" you refer to has sold around 11,000 units, while the Hyundai Nexo is selling around 8,000 a year.

May I suggest you do some proper research on the production of hydrogen, its conversion to a non gaseous state, storeage and it's efficiency whether as a compressed fuel or via a fuel cell? Hydrogen as a fuel is best suited to larger vehicles that do not need, quick delivery of speed changes as cars do. HGVs, trains and even ships are better vehicles for it.

11,000 units is a tiny number. 8,000 a year is miniscule.

[Lance]

Your source for this?

Perhaps in some backwater areas it's a non-starter, but the "demo vehicle" you refer to has sold around 11,000 units, while the Hyundai Nexo is selling around 8,000 a year.

I think there is some confusion between a hydrogen fuel cell car (nexo et al) and internal combustion hydrogen (which Toyota have got working as a proof of concept).

[WTFH]

Hydrogen for cars is a non starter even if Toyota, whoever, may have a demo vehicle up and running. And if you think EV batteries are dangerous and a potential fire hazard, wait until you have a hydrogen 'bomb' pressurised to around 700psi in a full fuel tank \ cell. Hydrogen is biglumbering vehicles such as HGVs and trains has more legs because of the way it's stored and is more suitable to giving up it's energy at a consistent rate, not the stop \ start sudden squirt on the loud pedal car and van drivers are used to. in any event, extracting hydrogen and compressing it into a form to fuel vehicles isnt yet a free, get out of jail process.

Your source for this?

Perhaps in some backwater areas it's a non-starter, but the "demo vehicle" you refer to has sold around 11,000 units, while the Hyundai Nexo is selling around 8,000 a year.

[Fraidycat]

Even without the need to recover the pandemic handouts, anyone who thought that EVs would retain a relatively low tax burden over the coming years, as PE car sales/usage reduce, is extremely naive.

It is obviously an incentive. They want the vast majority of new sales to be EV before the 2030 ban on PEs. Otherwise they will have to delay to it. Once enough people go EV they don't need to offer the incentive anymore. I don't think anyone is expecting this to be permanent.

[Paralytic]

With the Government looking to rake in revenue to cover some of the pandemic's cost, it is debatable whether EVs will retain their tax efficiency for much longer.

Even without the need to recover the pandemic handouts, anyone who thought that EVs would retain a relatively low tax burden over the coming years, as PE car sales/usage reduce, is extremely naive.

[TheDogsNads]

If you ignore the shortage of high-speed chargers (that can only be resolved by significant investments in public infrastructure - I've seen the data from the CPOs), then the financials being described here makes EVs worth considering. Even "vampire leakage" (losing charge of between 1 mile/ 1% per day when not in use, if the data is accurate) seems reasonable for occasional drivers, compared to older battery technology. https://teslaowners.org.uk/kb/reduce...e-tesla-parked

All rechargable batteries lose charge when not in use. Even non rechargable batteries lose charge. Manufacturers have to 'top up' lead acid batteries every so often to stop them flattening before fitting to vehicles. The reason EV batteries lose charge when not used is because the packs have such large capacity, a small loss is more noticable than say on your 500mah phone battery. it still happens but is tiny in comparison.

Hydrogen for cars is a non starter even if Toyota, whoever, may have a demo vehicle up and running. And if you think EV batteries are dangerous and a potential fire hazard, wait until you have a hydrogen 'bomb' pressurised to around 700psi in a full fuel tank \ cell. Hydrogen is biglumbering vehicles such as HGVs and trains has more legs because of the way it's stored and is more suitable to giving up it's energy at a consistent rate, not the stop \ start sudden squirt on the loud pedal car and van drivers are used to. in any event, extracting hydrogen and compressing it into a form to fuel vehicles isnt yet a free, get out of jail process.

EVs currently attract a favourable BIK but the Treasury's plans are to phase this out. It was proposed to increase to 4 or 5% a few years back but 'dishy' Rishi decided to postpone that. With the Government looking to rake in revenue to cover some of the pandemic's cost, it is debatable whether EVs will retain their tax efficiency for much longer.

[lecyclist]

If you ignore the shortage of high-speed chargers (that can only be resolved by significant investments in public infrastructure - I've seen the data from the CPOs), then the financials being described here makes EVs worth considering. Even "vampire leakage" (losing charge of between 1 mile/ 1% per day when not in use, if the data is accurate) seems reasonable for occasional drivers, compared to older battery technology. https://teslaowners.org.uk/kb/reduce...e-tesla-parked

[northernladuk]

Yeah, I should probably have mentioned he's not a contractor, he runs/owns a reasonable size company and he bought it as a pool car for his staff to drive to clients, so it's a genuine company asset/tool rather than just his plaything. He's by far the richest person I know so I have no doubt he has a great accountant who's pointed him in the right direction

Probably had because that's completely different to 'Tesla he bought as one of his cars' and nothing like our situations. I still doubt he's bought a 50k tesla as a pool car and I'll bet he doesn't have a great accountant. A great accountant will have him working bang to rights. He's probably got a 'creative' accountant. The guy that had the Cayman got it on advice from his accountant who, rather than tell him what he should be doing to keep to the letter of the law, was telling him what he could get away with.

[Snooky]

Unless he's a taxi driver/similar, then he can't reclaim VAT on the purchase of a car. Yes he'll get 100% write down for CT purposes, which is great, but it does in turn mean if/when he sells it, his company suffers CT on whatever it's sold for.

Yeah, I should probably have mentioned he's not a contractor, he runs/owns a reasonable size company and he bought it as a pool car for his staff to drive to clients, so it's a genuine company asset/tool rather than just his plaything. He's by far the richest person I know so I have no doubt he has a great accountant who's pointed him in the right direction