Reply to: Working via UK Ltd, without residence ANYWHERE (remote work + travel)

[NotAllThere]

...lots of advice and information from a newbie, whose first post is to say he wants to send a PM...

You have to wonder what he's selling?

Thread locked.

[Fred Bloggs]

I will just say to the OP, there is some very, very bad stuff being posted here. Be very careful is my only advice. I DO know of at least one person who does what you suggest, however, I think the practice isn't tax avoidance, potentially, it's something much more serious. Proceed with extreme caution.

[the tartan one]

More potential tax evasion

I think HMRC would have a very different view.
If you're not paying personal tax anywhere you're not able to use any dual tax treaty to avoid UK income tax.

You're going to take money from a UK LTD company and take it offshore. How are you going to take it? What bank account will allow you to do this?

And if you happen to be in France for an hour or two they may decide you're resident there. That'll cost more.

Have you considered why the really wealthy are always resident/domiciled somewhere? If being resident nowhere avoids all personal tax then more people would do it.

I'm not saying it won't work. I am wondering how many countries could end up chasing you, all of them legitimately.

I think HMRC would have a very different view.

I don't think they would

If you're not paying personal tax anywhere you're not able to use any dual tax treaty to avoid UK income tax.

Dual tax treaties are only to prevent you from double claims on the same money.

Due to vagaries in the treaties, if you only deal with 2 countries you can be resident in both. If you deal with 3 or more , you can be resident in none.


You're going to take money from a UK LTD company and take it offshore. How are you going to take it? What bank account will allow you to do this?

You can do this from any UK account legitimately when you are non resident.

And if you happen to be in France for an hour or two they may decide you're resident there. That'll cost more.

Like most other countries, you are only resident in France if you are there more than 183 days.

Have you considered why the really wealthy are always resident/domiciled somewhere? If being resident nowhere avoids all personal tax then more people would do it.

Oh don't get started with domicile, that's another chance for everyone to get misinformed.

If more people could arrange their affairs then they would do it.

Unless you can demonstrate you are resident elsewhere, HMRC will continue to treat you as resident in the UK. If they decide you residency remains in the UK, any tax you pay elsewhere (if there's a double taxation agreement) will be offset against your tax liability.

Many countries have a policy of taxation on all income globally. So if you're not resident in the UK, but resident elsewhere, any income derived from the UK is liable to taxation in the counrty you do reside in.

Since UK taxation operates under self assessment, unless you're investigated you'll get away with simply evading/avoiding tax. If you're in one country after another, they may not cotton on to you being there, and so evade/avoid tax there. That doesn't mean there's no liability; if you do get caught it will be expensive and possibly result in criminal charges.

TL;DR there's no escape. The best is that you can show you're resident in a lower tax regime country.

Unless you can demonstrate you are resident elsewhere, HMRC will continue to treat you as resident in the UK.

Not true. HMRC will continue to treat you as resident until you prove you are not. You don't need to prove residence elsewhere.

Many countries have a policy of taxation on all income globally. So if you're not resident in the UK, but resident elsewhere, any income derived from the UK is liable to taxation in the counrty you do reside in.

True, but irrelevant if you are not resident anywhere. Some countries the residence remains "sticky" i.e. if you become resident it takes effort to lose it, even if you are not there for 6 months, but in general if you never become resident it never becomes a problem.


Since UK taxation operates under self assessment, unless you're investigated you'll get away with simply evading/avoiding tax. If you're in one country after another, they may not cotton on to you being there, and so evade/avoid tax there.

Since UK taxation operates under self assessment, it is easy to let HMRC know that you are no longer resident. If you are in one country........., they usually have no interest in you if you never become resident.

[SueEllen]

I don't know all of your circumstances but if you are not UK tax resident you shouldn't be paying uk income tax on UK income unless you are actually physically carrying out substantial work for more than 30 something days per tax year.

The OP is not planning on carrying out any actual work in the UK.

UK income is not always subject to tax when not resident.

The poster you are quoting is not a young naive one who doesn't understand what he is doing and what HMRC can do to him.

[the tartan one]

Potential tax evasion

You're going to have to pay tax on your UK income anyway, wherever you are hiding.

Not to do so would not be tax avoidance. It would be tax evasion and that is not a good thing to be charged with at all.

Edited to say - I am not UK tax resident. But I do have to pay UK income tax on the income stream I still have arising in the UK even though I am not there.

You're going to have to pay tax on your UK income anyway, wherever you are hiding.

Untrue. I don't know your exact circumstances but in general you don't pay income tax on your UK earnings if you are non resident. You do pay tax on non earned income though.

You'll need to pay your personal taxes somewhere, unless you're living on a boat in international waters.

You may say that you are paying more for things, etc, that's completely irrelevant to paying tax. The amount you pay extra for renting places short term is because of your lifestyle choice.

Paying taxes isn't a lifestyle choice, unfortunately.

You'll need to pay your personal taxes somewhere,

Common phrase uttered by those not in the know - But they can be paid at a ZERO rate, like those residents of Monaco for example.


Paying taxes isn't a lifestyle choice, unfortunately.

If you are able to arrange your working affairs in a manner described by the original poster then it can be ( if that is what you are morally happy with)

You should consult your accountant or a tax adviser to confirm your residence status. Generally, there are automatic tests such as if you spend fewer than 16 days in the UK you are automatically non-resident and if you spend 183 days or more you are automatically resident. However, there are other factors to be considered such as the sufficient ties tests mainly family connections and available accommodation in the UK.

You should also be aware that if the company is not managed and controlled in the UK (considering both directors live elsewhere and not residents in the UK), the company will not be liable to corporation tax in the UK but in the country you are both residents. This means that you will have to appoint a local accountant in the country you are considered resident and pay both your company's and personal taxes there. You can still keep the UK company and open a branch in your 'other' country of residence.

I hope this helps.

Some of this advice is not correct.

Generally, there are automatic tests such as if you spend fewer than 16 days in the UK you are automatically non-resident and if you spend 183 days or more you are automatically resident.

I think that the 16 days only takes effect if you were able to previously claim non residence.
The 183 days is an absolute, but there are now a sliding scale of days depending on your sufficient ties and whether you were resident in the 3 previous tax years.

One colleague of mine is in year 1 and is allowed 46 days, another colleague is in year 7 and is allowed 93 days. The 183 days is really for people coming to work in the UK and deciding if they are UK tax resident.


You should also be aware that if the company is not managed and controlled in the UK (considering both directors live elsewhere and not residents in the UK), the company will not be liable to corporation tax in the UK but in the country you are both residents.

Some confusion there.

Some countries may consider that management and control is happening in the country you are working. Which may prevent you working through your UK Ltd. Generally if you are in the foreign country for less than 6 months per year there won't be a problem. A few countries may TRY to advise you otherwise.

But the UK company will still be liable for corporation tax on profits.


This means that you will have to appoint a local accountant in the country you are considered resident and pay both your company's and personal taxes there.

You should take local advice if you plan to be there for more than 183 days per calendar year, otherwise don't worry

The OP thinks he has stumbled across an ingenious plan no one has ever thought of before.

It’s clearly not as simple as he thinks and he isn’t getting the straightforward “yes, just do it like this...” he thought he would get.

The OP is correct , it can work out for him.

It IS as simple as he thinks. So long as you have the freedom to choose your working circumstances.

You're going to have to pay tax on your UK income anyway, wherever you are hiding. Not to do so would not be tax avoidance. It would be tax evasion and that is not a good thing to be charged with at all.

Edited to say - I am not UK tax resident. But I do have to pay UK income tax on the income stream I still have arising in the UK even though I am not there.

I don't know all of your circumstances but if you are not UK tax resident you shouldn't be paying uk income tax on UK income unless you are actually physically carrying out substantial work for more than 30 something days per tax year.

The OP is not planning on carrying out any actual work in the UK.

UK income is not always subject to tax when not resident.

[cojak]

Can you PM me. I might have some information that can help. I cannot appear to PM you.

You are not allowed PM permission until you make 6 posts.

[the tartan one]

I might have some info.

Thank you all for the info! I will probably consult an accountant.

...OK, let's put it that way than: for someone who can live anywhere in Europe and (I assume) register a company anywhere in EU/UK, with clients in UK and EU (well, mostly I invoice agencies based in UK), what is are the best places to set up a company and get a residency?

Can you PM me. I might have some information that can help. I cannot appear to PM you.

[WaldemarPross]

As long as you don't draw an income from YourCo. then you won't have any income tax to pay from that source? Simple as.

Yup, aware of that. But I gotta eat and sleep and stuff and need money for that
I mean even if I did that, I would have to take it out at some point.

[WaldemarPross]

Do you live in the EU?

If so, you do benefit from the NHS, for example - the reciprocal agreement that means you get healthcare in other EU member states (EHIC), and also the UK's membership of the EU, whereby some of the money raised from UK taxes goes to the EU.

I will spend about 2/3 of time in EU, rest somewhere else.
I don't use EHIC and have private international insurance.

[WaldemarPross]

The OP thinks he has stumbled across an ingenious plan no one has ever thought of before.

It’s clearly not as simple as he thinks and he isn’t getting the straightforward “yes, just do it like this...” he thought he would get.

Nope, but I might be in a situation different to many other people and so have more options to optimise how I pay taxes. I think only a small percentage of people can go from one country to another every few months, living from just one backpack. And even if others knew they can reduce taxes they pay by doing that, they would still prefer to stay in one place, pay taxes there, do everything as the state expects you to do etc.

[m0n1k3r]

If you will not be in the EU then you can' t use your Ltd and if you do HMRC will assume it's all UK income because you won't be able to prove otherwise.

Actually, can use a UK Ltd, but would have to register it as a "foreign branch" in the company register in that other country and comply with all tax, accounting and tax regimes as if it were a local company there.

[BlasterBates]

If you will not be in the EU then you can' t use your Ltd and if you do HMRC will assume it's all UK income because you won't be able to prove otherwise.

[WTFH]

I don't live in UK. I don't benefit from any of these services.

Do you live in the EU?

If so, you do benefit from the NHS, for example - the reciprocal agreement that means you get healthcare in other EU member states (EHIC), and also the UK's membership of the EU, whereby some of the money raised from UK taxes goes to the EU.

[jmo21]

The OP thinks he has stumbled across an ingenious plan no one has ever thought of before.

It’s clearly not as simple as he thinks and he isn’t getting the straightforward “yes, just do it like this...” he thought he would get.

[TheFaQQer]

Might be worth sending a PM to alreadypacked who is a fiscal nomad and get her advice on how she gets it to work.