IR35 Reforms to be Abolished!

[malvolio]

See my flow chart above - just take the money and have appropriate insurance to handle hmrc if they start asking questions

And make sure you understand the basics of IR35 so you can make an informed assessment of the reality of your contract.

Although we've been saying that for 21 years now...

[northernladuk]

So govenrment wants the employees to be tax experts.
And determining the status before even start working there, when some of the IR35 tests are about how the work is being carried out.
Madness. How would anyone accept working as Ltd co in this situation...

This post is everything that is wrong with the situation. People who don't have a clue what they do making their own assessments.
Nice and easy for you though, you are going to be inside for every gig you do in the foreseeable future.

Or you are trolling...

[eek]

And make sure you understand the basics of IR35 so you can make an informed assessment of the reality of your contract.

Although we've been saying that for 21 years now...

This is a whole new world - it’s not going to be IR35 you need to worry about it’s going to be the MSC legislation HMRC use…

HMRC have furlough fraud to deal with that’s going to take a priority over something the Government want implemented

[ichidan]

My general interpretation of the mini budget is that FTE industries (Finance, Tech, Electronics) are treated on a higher pedestal. Which is the case globally, be it in the US or Russia. The UK has realised that squeezing the middle-class particularly those in FTE industries is like killing the golden goose. abolishment of IR35 is one of many admissions that they've squeezed FTE sectors too hard. Raise the bar a little too high, beyond any level of sustainability.

For me personally since IR35 & Covid, life has gone from the fast lane, to gen pop. Life has been mediocre since, depression, mental health issues, behind payments on everything including mortgage. The only positive is that it has renewed my interest in trying to create my own business (own software or go into construction industry).

I may not be indicative of the average contractor, but I wouldn't be surprised if the past few years have been particularly rough for a lot of people in FTE sectors.

Squeezing the masses as a government strategy to keep the wealth pyramid shaped to ideal proportions generally works until you cut into particular critical industries.

So I'd take the reforms to mean the intention is for business to return to it's normal ways pre-IR35. Although could be a ruse to get more revenue from the contractor in fines for non-IR35 compliance later on. It'll certainly make it easier to attract back the best contractors in the near term.

[Abbot]

I must be one of the few contractors not happy with this. Purely from a selfish pov but my sector had settled. Most contracts that were offered outside were genuinely outside. For the rest rates had crept up to compensate the contractor for going from outside to inside.

This is just going to create more uncertainty over the next few months. I saw it happen early 2020 where the market just tanked in the lead up to IR35 changes. Then immediately after the announcement of delaying IR35 changes contractors were being allowed to go back outside by the same companies that had determined them inside in the lead up to March 2020. Again in 2021 people were having to leave contracts at the cut off point unless the client was saying outside contracts would be determined as outside. Now the same thing will happen where contractors finishing early 2023 are screwed as they will have to take inside contracts that overlap this change and contractors on inside contracts will start leaving early most probably if they can get outside contracts post repeal.

I’m a bit disappointed because I thought this was a decent compromise and from what I see this is working. HMRC couldn’t care less about us contractors as long as they get their ER NI which they were. So to change it again and just go back to blatantly inside contracts being run through LTD companies is just going to make it harder for us somewhere down the line again.

[northernladuk]

I must be one of the few contractors not happy with this. Purely from a selfish pov but my sector had settled. Most contracts that were offered outside were genuinely outside. For the rest rates had crept up to compensate the contractor for going from outside to inside.

This is just going to create more uncertainty over the next few months. I saw it happen early 2020 where the market just tanked in the lead up to IR35 changes. Then immediately after the announcement of delaying IR35 changes contractors were being allowed to go back outside by the same companies that had determined them inside in the lead up to March 2020. Again in 2021 people were having to leave contracts at the cut off point unless the client was saying outside contracts would be determined as outside. Now the same thing will happen where contractors finishing early 2023 are screwed as they will have to take inside contracts that overlap this change and contractors on inside contracts will start leaving early most probably if they can get outside contracts post repeal.

I’m a bit disappointed because I thought this was a decent compromise and from what I see this is working. HMRC couldn’t care less about us contractors as long as they get their ER NI which they were. So to change it again and just go back to blatantly inside contracts being run through LTD companies is just going to make it harder for us somewhere down the line again.

I see your point and must admit I agree. It's sorted the wheat from the chaff and those that put the effort in to understand what they do and have the skills to land the outside gigs have been able to do. So yes, I'm a little miffed with it as well as it's just gonna be open season for people that just don't have a clue. I've had texts from three such people asking me what's going on this weekend alone.

Gotta see the other side though, I've been lucky being outside all the way through but there are a ton of gigs out there that could have been outside but the clients have taken a very cautious approach and either blanket banned or angled the answers to make the gig inside so narrowing down the market. I was absolutely prepared to have to go inside at some point. That has gone now, so there will be more opportunity of bagging outside gigs in the longer term. So gotta over the annoyance that every chump will have an outside gig now and just focus on the benefits for you.

[youngguy]

As someone running an inside gig with a bit of outside on the side, I think I'd have been happier with nothing changing, or IR35 being fully addressed (rather than the rollback to the old model).

Being inside has been frustrating at times (poor umbrellas, less pension flexibility, no expenses etc) but my rate did rise to partially compensate things and it has allowed me to be more flexible with the client (I could stay for more than 2 yrs if I wanted, a little more mngt stuff etc).

Back in the day I was initially blanket assessed, but many contractors queried the assessment so the dept went down the route of changing their engagement model (similar to banks) and the assessments ended up in a drawer - or did they make it to HMRC?

Come April if I chose to remain at said client and assessed myself again, it likely puts a bigger target on my back and makes my ability to argue my position even harder. Let's not forget CEST is still HMRC's tool of choice and it has all the bias and lack of clarity that it had a few yrs ago.
This move from Gov brings back all the uncertainty of the old model, plus a bit more, with an additional sprinkling of extra upheaval.

[KentDogWalker]

Let's explain how things will go post April

hahaha this is class

[IR35equalshateoflittleguy]

Yea, can't say I am not happy that they cancelled ir35 but woah what a waste of time that non sense was.

I just think of the many victims of IR35 that had their lives ruined.

One IT Trainer I know, had to pay back £100k and his wife left him, he lost his house, rarely sees his children and he had to live above a shop in a flat. I heard he took his own life a year later. These government imbeciles should lose their jobs!

[sadkingbilly]

IR35 has NOT been repealed/cancelled/abolished. where is this coming from?
some changes have been rolled back.
NOT the same thing.