PS Bodies unite to try to shelve IR35 plans

[malvolio]

APNs, as I understand it, are not aimed at any one group in particular, only at anyone that HMRC believes owes tax and there is a risk it won't get paid for some reason.

[Semtex]

I note your careful choice of words, and that "good contractors" vs "bad contractors" mentality might be just why we are getting shafted with such regularity. HMG don't even need to divide and rule us - we divide ourselves just fine.
And I did not say APNs were the start, what I said is that it emboldened our "friends" into trying policies they would have never dared before.

DS, eek always takes a superior position, makes you wonder why if he is so bloody brilliant why he needs to spend hours on a forum telling everyone how great he is and belittling other posters. Along with his various sidekicks it can be really off putting for new forum members.

We are all contractors earning a living, some with more knowledge, experience and business acumen than the others, we as a community should try and elevate knowledge amongst us, not sneer and laugh at the less knowledgeable.

[eek]

DS, eek always takes a superior position, makes you wonder why if he is so bloody brilliant why he needs to spend hours on a forum telling everyone how great he is and belittling other posters. Along with his various sidekicks it can be really off putting for new forum members.

We are all contractors earning a living, some with more knowledge, experience and business acumen than the others, we as a community should try and elevate knowledge amongst us, not sneer and laugh at the less knowledgeable.

To be blunt it was the willingness of contractors to use any means possible to avoid being hit by ir35 that is the root cause of this mess.

DS and others claim it's the fact we didn't support them that has created this mess. Sadly I believe the fact people joined half baked tax avoidance schemes is the reason why this new clamp down is so much tighter than the previous ones.

[Semtex]

To be blunt it was the willingness of contractors to use any means possible to avoid being hit by ir35 that is the root cause of this mess.

DS and others claim it's the fact we didn't support them that has created this mess. Sadly I believe the fact people joined half baked tax avoidance schemes is the reason why this new clamp down is so much tighter than the previous ones.

all due respect that is rubbish.

The IR35 proposal was flawed from the start hence why many went into these schemes because of the fear!!
The 'tax avoidance' schemes were promoted by numerous well respected accountants and consultancies
HMRC had decades to resolve the situation and failed to act

you need to re evaluate your focus in my opinion

[DotasScandal]

APNs, as I understand it, are not aimed at any one group in particular, only at anyone that HMRC believes owes tax but has a case they know they cannot defeat through the courts.

FTFY

[MrMarkyMark]

To be blunt it was the willingness of contractors to use any means possible to avoid being hit by ir35 that is the root cause of this mess.

DS and others claim it's the fact we didn't support them that has created this mess. Sadly I believe the fact people joined half baked tax avoidance schemes is the reason why this new clamp down is so much tighter than the previous ones.

I was offered all of these schemes, at some point, from very early on.

"Everyone" was doing it, "can't go wrong" etc etc ad infinite-um.

I decided they were too risky for my business given 90% of my family and step family are all self employed and had been as I was growing up.

Both the younger ones and me have business's in IT, Graphic Design and Property Management respectively.

The old man laughed when I described these type of schemes and suggested HMRC would be on the case before long (he had his own building company).

Of course its all about education, either gleaned by others, or your own graft

[malvolio]

FTFY

But both wrong and naïve. They may well be applied far more widely than was originally intended (about which I am actually unconvinced), but the sole idea is to secure tax revenues that are under dispute and that may "disappear" the final position is resolved. That is not actually that unreasonable. What is unreasonable is imposing it on people who have no way to pay them pending that resolution. But this is an old argument, and has no place in this context.

And FWIW, while I very rarely agree with eek, on this one point I do. You may have been looking for a non-IR35 solution, but that does not to my mind mean you suddenly pay significantly less tax as a result.

[Semtex]

I was offered all of these schemes, at some point, from very early on.

"Everyone" was doing it, "can't go wrong" etc etc ad infinite-um.

I decided they were too risky for my business given 90% of my family and step family are all self employed and had been as I was growing up.

Both the younger ones and me have business's in IT, Graphic Design and Property Management respectively.

The old man laughed when I described these type of schemes and suggested HMRC would be on the case before long (he had his own building company).

Of course its all about education, either gleaned by others, or your own graft

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[DotasScandal]

but the sole idea is to secure tax revenues that are under dispute and that may "disappear" the final position is resolved. That is not actually that unreasonable.

With respect, I think you are being naive with regard to the motivation. Ask anyone familiar with the matter, and you will find that
1/ APNs are routinely issued for tax that the "customer" had no idea was "in dispute" (sometimes going as far back as 2004!) - simply because they haven't heard a blip to that effect from HMRC
2/ HMRC is absolutely not interested in seeing anything "resolved", in fact quite the opposite - as evidenced by the stalling tactics deployed to prevent any EBT case (for example) from actually making it to tribual (some providers have been asking HMRC for closure notices (a prerequisite for FTT) since 2013).

A much simpler interpretation is that once a "customer" has been impoverished by way of APN(s), there is generally no money left to fund a FTT case, hence the matter is never determined by the courts. You're guilty by default, the money sits with HMRC --> Problem solved.

[MrMarkyMark]

Semtex?
I doubt you can blow your own nose

rubbish....leaving public sector....boring......arrogant.....schemes and blah...blah...contracting for years son...blah...

And yes I consider you were a total MUG when you joined your tax avoidance scheme.

HTH