IR35 PS - So anyone had the discussion yet?

[daemon]

Well, my agency have "decreed" that the only exceptions they will accept to us being deemed by default to be inside IR35 is if we go through the upcoming HMRC test and it says we are outside (little chance of that given its going to be skewed in favour of HMRC) AND if that test puts us outside of IR35 and subsequently it is found by HMRC that the information was entered in to the test was inaccurate and they bill the agency, the agency will pursue the individuals to recover their costs through the courts.

So 17th March, i resign (one weeks notice) last day 24th March, paid into my account 31st March.

Holiday booked to Lanzarote, leaving 1st April for a well earned break.

[Andy Hallett]

Well, my agency have "decreed" that the only exceptions they will accept to us being deemed by default to be inside IR35 is if we go through the upcoming HMRC test and it says we are outside (little chance of that given its going to be skewed in favour of HMRC) AND if that test puts us outside of IR35 and subsequently it is found by HMRC that the information was entered in to the test was inaccurate and they bill the agency, the agency will pursue the individuals to recover their costs through the courts.

So 17th March, i resign (one weeks notice) last day 24th March, paid into my account 31st March.

Holiday booked to Lanzarote, leaving 1st April for a well earned break.

Hmm. Not sure where to start. But in summary, they are being lazy and committing commercial suicide. Also good luck with pursuing through the courts, throwing good money after bad on my reading of the legislation.

[bobspud]

I don't think HMRC will tolerate any concerns about the legislation from TfL.

Sadiq Khan made it a key plank of his post Election strategy to cut the off-payroll workers at TfL, characterized by his interview in July last year;

He said: “I am determined to bring the number of agency workers at TfL down as part of the root-and-branch review I have ordered.”

TfL declined to say how many of the temporary staff were paid via “personal service” companies, which allow income tax and national insurance to be avoided.

There were 2480 agency staff during the 2014/15 financial year, on average, while the number paid through personal service companies was 2,296 in December 2015.
https://www.ft.com/content/a1b5d18c-...8-72e9211e86ab

The Mayor has boxed himself and TfL in with this; HMRC are delivering precisely that he has demanded and he can't really blanch at the prospect of too many contractors now determining to leave (most likely engineers, retiring).

If there is an exodus; and the second letter suggests there is one underway, then some or all of the projects listed on this page are likely to be most-at-risk from seeing even a small proportion of the 2000+ contractors being persuaded by TfL's suggestion to walk away:

https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-informatio...-and-projects/

If operations as well as projects are impacted, then the first casualty will be The Night Tube, recently introduced on the Victoria and Jubilee lines, and most of the Central, Piccadilly and Northern (Charing Cross) lines. Running a 24-hour Underground depends hugely on maintenance, planning and change resources. If any of these are impacted, even for a short time, then the likely damage is likely to be felt for some months/years, as it won't be easy-to-recover. In all likelihood TfL will have to abandon The Night Tube inside the next few months.

They'll be no respite coming from HMRC though; Khan demanded action against TfL's own contractors...and got it!

Sorry you seem to be referring to manual labour. Im talking about the guys in the offices that have skills that are in demand outside of TFL. I think you might find not all pigs are equal in this case....

[eek]

Sorry you seem to be referring to manual labour. Im talking about the guys in the offices that have skills that are in demand outside of TFL. I think you might find not all pigs are equal in this case....

True but I suspect that this could be the straw that breaks the camel's back for tfl. I won't be office skills that destroy this plan, it's some unforeseen section that is using it to pay people more than they previously would have got. And the night tube is probably a perfect example we're being off payroll makes it worthwhile to do a job you otherwise wouldn't take.

The examples I've seen a similar win win circumstances. Employee gets more cash, employer avoids awkward political head count issues.

[daemon]

Hmm. Not sure where to start. But in summary, they are being lazy and committing commercial suicide. Also good luck with pursuing through the courts, throwing good money after bad on my reading of the legislation.

Indeed. Absolute madness.

[PS oh noes]

Indeed. Absolute madness.

My agency is the same, assuming it's different from the one above.

[LandRover]

Well, my agency have "decreed" that the only exceptions they will accept to us being deemed by default to be inside IR35 is if we go through the upcoming HMRC test and it says we are outside (little chance of that given its going to be skewed in favour of HMRC) AND if that test puts us outside of IR35 and subsequently it is found by HMRC that the information was entered in to the test was inaccurate and they bill the agency, the agency will pursue the individuals to recover their costs through the courts.

So 17th March, i resign (one weeks notice) last day 24th March, paid into my account 31st March.

Holiday booked to Lanzarote, leaving 1st April for a well earned break.

Perfect timing imho.

Story posted on CUK looks like retrospective action likely against those who continue contracting Public Sector

IR35 inspectors to probe public PSCs retrospectively :: Contractor UK

[nucastle]

Perfect timing imho.

Story posted on CUK looks like retrospective action likely against those who continue contracting Public Sector

IR35 inspectors to probe public PSCs retrospectively :: Contractor UK

Obviously we know on this forum that it's a major concern, but that news story making it out into the public is huge if you ask me ... QDOS, IPSE etc all warning about retrospective action?! Abandon ship!

[difficulttimes]

I don't question the increase in risk attached with continuing on from an outside to inside scenario - BUT more to this it is a very good political move by all parties concerned. Fight fire with fire.
The only way HMRC will listen is if the majority of people get up and leave- no amount of additional money will make you stay.
I raised this retro risk with my end client and they just brushed it aside.

[northernladuk]

I raised this retro risk with my end client and they just brushed it aside.

Of course they will. It's your tax affairs so non of their business. It would have been smarter not to IMO.