Results of the public sector consultation is up

[malvolio]

Interesting point. Clients might well think if contractors will have to pay NI then it might be simpler for everyone to do FTCs.

Financially the contractor is no worse off. Or could be better off - the client could offer benefits like pension contributions.

The problem however is 'contractor' and permie rates become much more readily compared; much more inflammatory as far as incumbent permies are concerned.

Doubt that. FTCs are employment contracts, and will be paid at normal employee rates for the grade.

[eek]

Doubt that. FTCs are employment contracts, and will be paid at normal employee rates for the grade.

If its anything like current clientco they won't be offered - FTC's aren't an option....

Local Government are currently in major restructuring mode to reduce costs in all departments that aren't essential.... They have been using off payroll for the past 3 years to recruit skilled people while avoiding a political nightmare and that's no longer possible.

* I should say I'm on a project based new development here. 25% of this department (i.e. all the expanse in the last 3 years) are BoS contractors because politics...

[northernladuk]

If its anything like current clientco they won't be offered - FTC's aren't an option....

Same with my last client. They have process for contingents and for new FTC's. Even though it's effectively the same there isn't any appetite to confuse the different groups.

[youngguy]

And the autonomy actually goes deeper? Does the person have to ask when they are working from home, advising the client is OK?

Where I am now, I can just decide in the morning whether I wish to schlep to the office, or not

It's these nuances that will probably be lost however when the client answers the Qs.

For instance on a ps gig a few years back I informed the client I would not be available for two weeks. They entered into one of their own calendars as me being on annual leave. I never used the office phone and my business mobile was on the bottom of my emails but no one probably ever realised.

It's a small thing, but if all of those little things are misread by the client then you can see what the outcome will be from the tool.

[youngguy]

Interesting point. Clients might well think if contractors will have to pay NI then it might be simpler for everyone to do FTCs.

Financially the contractor is no worse off. Or could be better off - the client could offer benefits like pension contributions.

The problem however is 'contractor' and permie rates become much more readily compared; much more inflammatory as far as incumbent permies are concerned.

But the client doesn't want to offer benefits so they are worse off. They won't be paying NI either. The contractor will cover employee and employer NI

[billybiro]

...long daisy chains of improbable arrangements are totally pointless...

And yet, this is exactly how the wealthy hide their money from Hector.

[Cirrus]

But the client doesn't want to offer benefits so they are worse off. They won't be paying NI either. The contractor will cover employee and employer NI

Come Q1, PS recruiters are going to sit down with their agencies. Their agencies will say "Contractors are going to have to be PAYE so we'll need to put them on some payroll system, and we need to take NI off them including employer's. How are we going to do this?"

"Oh I see", responds the client. "They have a contract that sticks them on PAYE - tax codes, P45s, P60s and all that - and we can give them any old sort of job description including one identical to the permies we've already got here"

Close up on client: sound of bell ringing; little light bulb illuminates above the client's head as a cheerful harry Enfield-type smile shoots across his face.....

[malvolio]

And yet, this is exactly how the wealthy hide their money from Hector.

And your point is? They have multiple income streams and very good legal support to justify what they do. And they can afford to be caught - I don't see Jimmy Carr on the breadline right now.

We don't.

[northernladuk]

Come Q1, PS recruiters are going to sit down with their agencies. Their agencies will say "Contractors are going to have to be PAYE so we'll need to put them on some payroll system, and we need to take NI off them including employer's. How are we going to do this?"

A smart cookie will offer them a solution not sit down and look incompetent.

[seeourbee]

There is a proposal being put forward but I'm not at liberty to discuss it at the moment .