Results of the public sector consultation is up

[MrMarkyMark]

FTFY

Its been very rare that I have seen the permanent guys do anything other than get in the way, take a spare seat and write reams of irrelevant, impossible to comprehend, out of date, documentation.

[SueEllen]

I worked for HMRC in Telford via Capgemini. I joined as a permie. I was fed up being a contractor - always getting the problem projects right when they've turned into a bloodbath; never included in any strategic elements.

Predictably I didn't care for permiedom (more specifically the toxic wasteland known as the Aspire Contract) and left after a year. But I made a shed load of cash, even with having to rent a flat out of my own taxed pocket. From that one year I have a £23000 Capgemini pension pot.

They were charging me out a touch over £1000 a day so there was plenty of scope to give me a fat salary, bonus, pension etc etc

If more work comes their way because of IR35, the SIs will be out there waving their cheque books, no problem..

You have pointed out another of the main differences between contractors and permies. For this reason along consultancies have difficulties recruiting people and keeping them.

Oh and while some of my contracts have been blood baths others have been nice and easy...

[SussexSeagull]

Which is great. Those that really can't cut it will be off the market leaving the way open for people that can do it properly. But I don't think many will either.

I guess it depends on the contractor. If they have hopped between NHS contracts all their career they might struggle to go anywhere else.

[northernladuk]

I guess it depends on the contractor. If they have hopped between NHS contracts all their career they might struggle to go anywhere else.

But then are they not the perfect reason for the change and for this group the legislation does exactly what it was supposed to?

[Cirrus]

You have pointed out another of the main differences between contractors and permies. For this reason along consultancies have difficulties recruiting people and keeping them.

Some time back I worked for a small consultancy. We did the same sort of thing as SIs. For example I managed systems for Barclaycard, Standard Chartered Bank, RSA etc. It was always on site.

The bloke who owned the business told me that he didn't care in the slightest whether his consultants chose to be permie or contract. It was up to them to choose.

When I joined Capgemini, they had estimated they needed - I dunno - ten programme managers, plus loads of other roles. So they went out and got people, and I got assigned into a pool waiting for something to do. HMRC failed to initiate all the £000m of forecast projects so in due course Capgemini sought to let surplus people go. It cost them a bit to get rid of me but I made them a significant profit on the work I did do. It struck me they were used to this kind of resource management.

In the SI world people are coming and going all the time. Often you find the small number of SMEs who are important because of their domain knowledge are contractors. Most roles rely on people picking stuff up quickly. It doesn't make much difference whether you are a permie or a contractor. You're dropped in somewhere and you have to make a fist of it.

If SIs see a load more roles coming their way and they have to use permies (who might have been contractors until recent tax complications), I doubt their processes will even miss a beat.

Contractors (turned permie) will be able to make a nice living (including flexible working and generous pension schemes). They'll just have to put up with 360 degree performance assessments, personal improvement plans and week long courses in French chateaux)

[SussexSeagull]

But then are they not the perfect reason for the change and for this group the legislation does exactly what it was supposed to?

I would agree with that. For all people go on here about finding a niche, when something like this happens it can backfire.

[malvolio]

But then are they not the perfect reason for the change and for this group the legislation does exactly what it was supposed to?

Except the bulk of these are the several thousand locums who fill in all the gaps in the NHS nonsense recruitment processes that leave vacancies open for months while the managers have to interview dozens of hopelessly unqualified people. You would not believe the garbage CVs they have to treat seriously, mostly from people trying to hang on to their benefits payments.

And it's not doctors, who can fight their own battles, nor just nurses but lab staff and other back-office skilled technical staff that nobody ever notices. If you're a qualified and registered Microbiologist for example (which takes nearly as long as it does to be come an MD, incidentally), flitting off elsewhere is not a simple option.

This is not about top end IT contractors, sadly, there is a much wider context driving this.

[jonnyboy]

I was asked an interesting question by a PS client just now...... will this effect their 'casual professional help'.

This body uses small one man band companies for things like.. heating services, plumbing repairs, servicing lifts, gardening and the like. The type of "Bobs Plumbing Services" you see in the phone book.

Will this effect them using this type of company? Sometimes they are working for the PS company for a day or 2, and generally the hourly rate means it goes above the 220 day limit.

[malvolio]

I was asked an interesting question by a PS client just now...... will this effect their 'casual professional help'.

This body uses small one man band companies for things like.. heating services, plumbing repairs, servicing lifts, gardening and the like. The type of "Bobs Plumbing Services" you see in the phone book.

Will this effect them using this type of company?

Who knows, but in theory no; these people are delivering a service with a fixed deliverable on a PO call off basis.

Then again, so can we, if only we were asked to...

[seeourbee]

They sound outside ir35 unless they are on premises, fixing lifts 9-5 everyday under the PS control. This is what the tests should work out for you