Results of the public sector consultation is up

[jonnyboy]

They sound outside ir35 unless they are on premises, fixing lifts 9-5 everyday under the PS control. This is what the tests should work out for you

Ha ha - can you imagine. Somebody drills through a wall, queue waves of water gushing everywhere. Quick, lets called Bob Plumbing it to fix this. Oh, hang on... boots up HMRC web site... so, Question 1 of 50, Does bob......

[MrMarkyMark]

I was asked an interesting question by a PS client just now...... will this effect their 'casual professional help'.

This body uses small one man band companies for things like.. heating services, plumbing repairs, servicing lifts, gardening and the like. The type of "Bobs Plumbing Services" you see in the phone book.

Will this effect them using this type of company? Sometimes they are working for the PS company for a day or 2, and generally the hourly rate means it goes above the 220 day limit.

Well, unless they, the PS, are telling them how to do the plumbing work and how to fix the heating etc. it does suggest they would be under no D&C.

The other thing to consider is that IR35 has never been a concern for professional services, of this nature before and nothing has changed regarding the law that drives IR35.

[jonnyboy]

Well, unless they, the PS, are telling them how to do the plumbing work and how to fix the heating etc. it does suggest they would be under no D&C.

The other thing to consider is that IR35 has never been a concern for professional services, of this nature before and nothing has changed regarding the law that drives IR35.

SO now we are geting down to it - No D&C.

So Bob plumber - Told to fix this, he does it how he sees it should be done. Job done when water stops gushing. He owns Bobs Plumbers. He does the work himself.

Tim the Contractor - told to develop login screen, he does it how he sees it should be done. Job done when code is finished. He owns TimCo Ltd. He does the work himself.

Other than Tim is there day in and day out and Bob is only there for an hour - I fail to see the difference. If TimCo is caught, Bobs plumbers must also be caught.

But, D&C is only one of the questions.

Sorry - I am not trying to be difficult or stir up a nest - I am really trying to see the difference betwen TimCo and Bobs Plumbers as far as the tool and the law goes.

[SussexSeagull]

SO now we are geting down to it - No D&C.

So Bob plumber - Told to fix this, he does it how he sees it should be done. Job done when water stops gushing. He owns Bobs Plumbers. He does the work himself.

Tim the Contractor - told to develop login screen, he does it how he sees it should be done. Job done when code is finished. He owns TimCo Ltd. He does the work himself.

Other than Tim is there day in and day out and Bob is only there for an hour - I fail to see the difference. If TimCo is caught, Bobs plumbers must also be caught.

But, D&C is only one of the questions.

Sorry - I am not trying to be difficult or stir up a nest - I am really trying to see the difference betwen TimCo and Bobs Plumbers as far as the tool and the law goes.

Well if our new friend Tim genuinely finishes when the code is handed over and is paid on competition (or in stages for something a bit larger) I would agree so long as no one was demanding he was at his desk at 0900 or similar.

Problem is this would be a quantum leap for most public - or private - sector clients.

[SueEllen]

SO now we are geting down to it - No D&C.

So Bob plumber - Told to fix this, he does it how he sees it should be done. Job done when water stops gushing. He owns Bobs Plumbers. He does the work himself.

Tim the Contractor - told to develop login screen, he does it how he sees it should be done. Job done when code is finished. He owns TimCo Ltd. He does the work himself.

Other than Tim is there day in and day out and Bob is only there for an hour - I fail to see the difference. If TimCo is caught, Bobs plumbers must also be caught.

But, D&C is only one of the questions.

Sorry - I am not trying to be difficult or stir up a nest - I am really trying to see the difference betwen TimCo and Bobs Plumbers as far as the tool and the law goes.

Some of the PS I've done I've worked remotely part of the time from my home office. It was also up to me to find out what to deliver and how to deliver it.

[northernladuk]

As expected this thread has degenerated in to guess work of how to get around the rules.

[jonnyboy]

As expected this thread has degenerated in to a useful discussion of what the rules mean, how ambiguous they are, the unintended consequences, and how to get around the rules.

There you go, FIFY

[mudskipper]

As expected this thread has degenerated in to guess work of how to get around the rules.

By becoming a plumber? Sorted.

[eek]

As expected this thread has degenerated in to a useful discussion of what the rules mean, how ambiguous they are, the unintended consequences, and how to get around the rules.

There you go, FTFY

FTFTFY but I think NLUK is correct here we don't know what is going to happen and currently it's just blind guess work I'm seeing.

[jamesbrown]

As expected this thread has degenerated in to a useful discussion of what the rules mean, how ambiguous they are, the unintended consequences, and how to get around the rules.

There you go, FIFY

It is fairly pointless, TBH. Nothing is changing in law, other than what's outlined in the draft ITEPA, which says nothing about how IR35 is determined. The change is that the client will now make the determination. Until you know precisely when/how the online tool will be used (because it isn't mandated in ITEPA) and what results it will provide, this is inevitably a generic conversation about IR35. If you were outside IR35 before the changes and your working practices don't change, you're still outside after the changes. Of course you may be subject to withholding, regardless, and what you do about that is up to you (avoid the PS, appeal, accept it etc.).

Anyway, this has devolved into a largely generic and pointless conversation about IR35. You can make conventional arguments about deliverables, D&C etc., but the withholding tax and your IR35 status in law are about to become largely separate things.