Results of the public sector consultation is up

[youngguy]

nope see various comments above about workers / employee rights. Umbrella employees get them from their umbrella, those using a limited company would need to fight to get them (via a tribunal). Were you to get them though it would be your daily rate and then those benefits on top rather than your daily rate being used by the umbrella to give you those benefits.

So there is a reason for using an umbrella (you know where you are) but if you want to really annoy the public sector and are up for a battle there could be a big pay check for continuing with your limited company.

Now I actually doubt that option would live for long as any sensible public sector end client would insist on people using an umbrella company. I just hope agencies vet them and only allow proper ones to be used otherwise we will have bigger problems.

I wonder whether Gov are baking on the fact contractors generally tend to be lone wolves and so they won't have to deal with en masse action (whether that be rate rise demands, walkouts or et tribunals).

I seem to recall ipse holding a session in the MoJ when Capita tried to update their contracts and enough Contractors turned up to make capita realise this would give them a large problem , so they relented.

[Andy Hallett]

Are you actively briefing contractors or would you rather keep the commission rolling in?

Both.

[youngguy]

Andy, from your agency perspective, how will agencies over the employer ni's? Absorb, pass to client or pass to contractor? Also do you foresee agencies increasing their margins to cover the extra payroll work?

[youngguy]

If this were being applied in the Private Sector I'd agree, but a lot of Public Sector contracts end 30th March.

I'm getting loads of ps emails and calls....all for roles starting on Jan and going for 12 months . Funnily enough the rates are poor and under market rate...that's before you start looking to reduce by 20-30% for the new rules . Some of them would mean a PM in London on around 300pd!

[Andy Hallett]

Separately do you think the end client determining status helps or hinder agencies?

I can't speak for all agencies, but it helps us.

We run the very real risk that an assignment we deem 'inside' is interpreted as 'outside' by another agency. The digital tool is a guide only remember. As a PLC we can't run the risk of a big tax liability sitting on our balance sheet for years to come, so we'all go conservative where as smaller companies can risk it and phoenix when the tulip his the fan.

The real issue comes with the question who is liable for the misclassification, if it is incorrectly operated as outside of IR35. Up until today* the understanding was that it would be the entity closest to the PSC (the payer). This would leave the ludicrous situation of a Public Sector Body (PSB) being able to declare something outside IR35 but not have any comeback on them if they got it wrong and the payer getting lumped with the bill through no fault of their own.

*I have it on good authority that this will be amended.

[Andy Hallett]

Andy, from your agency perspective, how will agencies over the employer ni's? Absorb, pass to client or pass to contractor? Also do you foresee agencies increasing their margins to cover the extra payroll work?

If we are paying a PSC or a brolly the responsibility for the Employers NI is theirs As the employer.

There will be an administration burden, but I don't think it will be material when added to the quantum of everything else we currently have to do!

[Andy Hallett]

The biggest issue in this whole debate is that the government isn't joined up. By creating an effective subsidy for the private sector the public sector will likely have to pay more to deliver the services. I believe the expression is 'wooden dollars'.

The HMRC's approach to the emerging 'gig' economy is to take us back to the 1970's!

Haven't trawled through the whole thread but a comment by Paul Hughes at i-Paye got me thinking about other unintended consequences.

I'll just leave this here....

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...s-guidance.pdf

[jamesbrown]

I'll just leave this here....

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...s-guidance.pdf

Yep.

[youngguy]

Haven't trawled through the whole thread but a comment by Paul Hughes at i-Paye got me thinking about other unintended consequences.

Linky?

[eek]

Linky?

I would assume it was a verbal comment somewhere........