Originally posted by eek
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Results of the public sector consultation is up
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Originally posted by eek View Postit seems if you work with staff on a daily basis, sit in their office or use their hardware you are screwed.Comment
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Originally posted by mudskipper View PostI think the draft legislation is saying "it's the client". (IANAL)
61M Engagements to which Chapter applies
(1) Sections 61N to 61R apply where—
(a) an individual (“the worker”) personally performs, or is under
an obligation personally to perform, services for another
person (“the client”),
(b) the client is a public authority,
(c) the services are provided not under a contract directly
between the client and the worker but under arrangements
involving a third party (“the intermediary”), and
(d) the circumstances are such that—
(i) if the services were provided under a contract directly
between the client and the worker, the worker would
be regarded for income tax purposes as an employee
of the client or the holder of an office under the client,
or
(ii) the worker is an office-holder who holds that office
under the client and the services relate to the office.
61S Information to be provided by clients and consequences of failure
(1) If the conditions in section 61M(1)(a) to (c) are met in any case, and a
person as part of the arrangements mentioned in section 61M(1)(c)
enters into a contract with the client, the client must inform that
person (in the contract or otherwise) of which one of the following is
applicable—
(a) the client has concluded that the condition in section
61M(1)(d) is met in the case;
(b) the client has concluded that the condition in section
61M(1)(d) is not met in the case.
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(61M(1)(d) - see above is the 'you're IR35 caught' bit)
It makes sense insofar as the agent was never in a position to make a (proper) determination.Comment
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Why are the agencies seeing reduced margins - surely it will still be 20% on the daily rate ? No change there ?Comment
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Originally posted by SlipTheJab View PostWhats going to happen to a lot of the contractor accountants I wonder, if I was caught and in the PS come next year I would (IF I wanted to continue in the PS) bin the Ltd and go Brolly as, the resident ones that usually post on here have been very quiet of late
It does seem like there is little point in having the hassle of a ltd if you are purely engaged in the ps- it more or less becomes an agency worker modelComment
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Originally posted by jamesbrown View PostThat's what we're looking for. The client is defined as the public authority, and they must make the IR35 decision, not just provide the information necessary to make that decision. So eek was correct on this.
It makes sense insofar as the agent was never in a position to make a (proper) determination.merely at clientco for the entertainmentComment
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Originally posted by youngguy View PostBig knock on effect for agencies (especially smaller ones) and accountants (more work, less people as many will go brolly) etx. So less small businesses all round and more capita's and big 4.
It does seem like there is little point in having the hassle of a ltd if you are purely engaged in the ps- it more or less becomes an agency worker model
You are second guessing how accountants will be affected on a flawed assumption.'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!Comment
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Originally posted by eek View PostIt also shuts down a lot of the schemes that otherwise would have been created and makes shifting it to the private sector slightly harder. A public sector manager wants to keep his job and final salary pension, your typical private company director wants to minimise costs...Comment
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Originally posted by jamesbrown View PostTrue, but I'd still bet on a high degree of risk aversion (read: false employment). I have no doubt that, for the most clearcut cases, where the client agrees, there will be a way to obtain an outside determination, certainly in the private sector and possibly for some in the public sector, but the wider implications for the contracting community are pretty clear; there's going to be a lot of false employment and many accountants and other professional service providers in the IR35 industry will not survive (even if they try to serve engagers).
All I want is a world where as a specialist consultant competing directly against consultancies I can be treated as a self employed specialist rather than having the substitution hops to jump through. And I feel we are a step closer to that today.merely at clientco for the entertainmentComment
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Originally posted by eek View PostTo be honest I'm not at all concerned about false employment, I'm not rushing to be employed by anyone.
All I want is a world where as a specialist consultant competing directly against consultancies I can be treated as a self employed specialist rather than having the substitution hops to jump through. And I feel we are a step closer to that today.Comment
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