Results of the public sector consultation is up

[youngguy]

You and many others are making out that people get a gig in the PS and are stuck with it for life. Don't want to burst your bubble but we work in the private sector as well. You might get the odd PS gig if you can take the hit and go back to private so little change to the accountants.

You are second guessing how accountants will be affected on a flawed assumption.

You need to re-read my post and reset some of your assumptions my grumpy little friend!

[jonnyboy]

I love Jasmine. There, my feelings are out. I will hang a banner from the walls and declare... "I LOVE JASMINE".

By Jasmine, I mean this jasmine, from one of the very last sections of this awful guide......

Jasmine is a Website Designer, contracted to a large local authority to design and build a website - off-payroll working rules do not apply.
asmine is a website designer who provides her services through her own company, Jasmine WWW Ltd. The PSC has been contracted by a local authority, Midshire CC to design and build a new website, through which local residents should be able to access and use their services.
Midshire CC has agreed to pay Jasmine WWW Ltd £200,000 for Jasmine’s services.

Given the nature of Jasmine’s work and the contract with the PSC, the service indicates that the rules do not apply in this instance.

So what that seems to suggest, is that if its not a x days @ £y a day sitting at company ABCs desk day in and day out, then its all good.
You can still do project based work, at an agreed price, and it falls outside of the rules.

Yes, now I know that people are going to say 'yes, but landing those gigs is going to be impossible", but if you have a client that REALLY REALLY wants to keep you, then this seems a get out (or at least a short term side step).

[northernladuk]

I love Jasmine. There, my feelings are out. I will hang a banner from the walls and declare... "I LOVE JASMINE".

By Jasmine, I mean this jasmine, from one of the very last sections of this awful guide......



So what that seems to suggest, is that if its not a x days @ £y a day sitting at company ABCs desk day in and day out, then its all good.
You can still do project based work, at an agreed price, and it falls outside of the rules.

Yes, now I know that people are going to say 'yes, but landing those gigs is going to be impossible", but if you have a client that REALLY REALLY wants to keep you, then this seems a get out (or at least a short term side step).

You are way over simplifying it. She is delivering a product. A completed website. She can do in her own time and as fast as she wants to depending on clients need. Very very few contractors offer products like that. We offer professional services so a different model. The public sector is probably the worst lot for bending rules as well. They will follow any process regardless of the fall out and cost in most cases.

The rest of the example makes the situation very clear. You can just select an option thats not covered and then try to pretend it might fit. That's just pointless and get us nowhere.

[gisajob]

Guys im a long time lurker on these forums and have watched your musings on this matter with intrigue.

Im in a PS contract which ive been undertaking since Dec 2015. Ive been looking for an out since I got wind of this stuff in March.

Today of all days ive been offered a private sector contract. However - they will be providing me to, you guessed it...the public sector.

As far as I can understand ill be inside. The relationship goes - public sector body > private sector tech company > agency > me (ltd).

This is something that I was concerned about but I think it is covered on page 8:

Government Response
The government agrees that this definition of the public sector is appropriate for the
purposes of the change. It covers what most people would recognise as the public
sector, is a stable list that rarely changes and organisations will know whether or not
they are subject to the FOI Act.
The government also agrees that the reform should not be extended to private
companies carrying out public functions. HMRC will provide guidance to cover the process for the
small minority of cases where it may not be clear that an organisation is within the public sector.

[eek]

Guys im a long time lurker on these forums and have watched your musings on this matter with intrigue.

Im in a PS contract which ive been undertaking since Dec 2015. Ive been looking for an out since I got wind of this stuff in March.

Today of all days ive been offered a private sector contract. However - they will be providing me to, you guessed it...the public sector.

As far as I can understand ill be inside. The relationship goes - public sector body > private sector tech company > agency > me (ltd).

Below is the sell I have received from the recruiter;;

Hi X,

The guy currently in the position puts in a minimum of 40 Hours per week – just as an idea of how many he puts in last week was 42 Hours.

The vacancy would sit with private sector company so therefore from an IR35 point of view you would be safe as you would be contracting to the private sector.

private sector company would then therefore be providing a consultancy service to public sector body and you wouldn’t be doing so directly for them.

The contract would lie between private sector company and yourself.

What are your thoughts on this and the rate?


What do you guys think? Do you know anyone who you think could conduct a reliable contract review at this stage? Cheers

The question that matters is:-

Who is responsible for the work being delivered?

If its the software house you probably won't have a problem, if all the software house is doing is providing a bum on a seat on a project managed by a project manager employed by the public sector client and you work alongside public sector employees I think you are caught...

[MoroccanMole]

The earlier consultation document made clear that the reach of the new legislation covered contractor working through larger private sector consultancies.

That being said, two factors to consider. Firstly if it's a package of work or direct staff supply, and the second is if all parties in the supply chain are aware of the legislation.

Tbh, if the contract requires a minimum number of hours a weeks, this sounds a lot like SDC to me.

[BoredBloke]

If the client is deducting tax at source, how do they account for the fact that you might not be employed for the whole year. Many contractors have bench time to contend with. Is there a mechanism for claiming back over paid taxes? I handle my payroll with the assumption that I might find myself out of work at relatively short notice and I need funds in the business to continue paying my salary and the various company bills. As far as I see things, the easy to hire/fire nature of contracting is not being changed, but our ability to build a warchest is.

What happens if you have 2 clients at once? If they are deducting tax at source on contract 1, what happens to the earnings regarding contract 2?

[eek]

If the client is deducting tax at source, how do they account for the fact that you might not be employed for the whole year. Many contractors have bench time to contend with. Is there a mechanism for claiming back over paid taxes? I handle my payroll with the assumption that I might find myself out of work at relatively short notice and I need funds in the business to continue paying my salary and the various company bills. As far as I see things, the easy to hire/fire nature of contracting is not being changed, but our ability to build a warchest is.

What happens if you have 2 clients at once? If they are deducting tax at source on contract 1, what happens to the earnings regarding contract 2?

P45 is given to client when you begin, p45 is given to you when you finish.

Tax reclaim is via self assessment at the end of the year, other clients will pay your company gross so you would probably take that income via dividends or leave in the company until next year

[SueEllen]

If the client is deducting tax at source, how do they account for the fact that you might not be employed for the whole year. Many contractors have bench time to contend with. Is there a mechanism for claiming back over paid taxes? I handle my payroll with the assumption that I might find myself out of work at relatively short notice and I need funds in the business to continue paying my salary and the various company bills. As far as I see things, the easy to hire/fire nature of contracting is not being changed, but our ability to build a warchest is.

What happens if you have 2 clients at once? If they are deducting tax at source on contract 1, what happens to the earnings regarding contract 2?

That's what self-assessment is for.

Oh and don't be surprised, like many of my friends' over the years who have to claim back loads of money, if HMRC tells you you don't need to submit a return any more.

[MoroccanMole]

If you give consideration to the employment rights angle, and the recent Uber ruling, a PS body will be running through a check list and answering 'yes' to all the criteria that would make you an employee and eligible for employee benefits.