Results of the public sector consultation is up

[eek]

I believe you are more clued up than average.
99% of contractors I know insist on "doing their own thing", and would rather die than actually joining forces with other contractors.
Of course, necessity my change that eventually, but do not understimate the intertia.

Truthfully I only have it for the freebies and offers (that make most of IPSE's look poor).

[SueEllen]

Why won't the "tests" apply to consultancies like KPMG then ? As far as I can see KPMG bums are sat in seats, doing daily work that a good civil servant could do if they had time and skills. So why not tax KPMG invoices as employees too ?

KPMG and the larger consultancies bid for bits of work where they need to put in more than one body at a time.

[youngguy]

Because then they have pension liabilities for those people for the rest of their lives AND they are harder to get rid off.

Exactly that. The 'tax we dodge' covers those liabilities . Or to out it another way the premium clients pay is to be able to engage and disengage us quickly and without the issues of employee rights and regulations

[youngguy]

Indeed. Simone's a bit of a cheap one isn't she?

Looking at the flow chart, this could be another bit of Indian giving from central government. They'll up council budgets for them and take it back off them via contractor business NICs. Joe Public won't have a clue about it and obviously won't protest at people paying the "correct" tax if Tory's Pravda equivalent words it correctly for the red top rags. It'll just end up that the councils get an extra £20k per year and give it all back as NICs. Window dressing. What a bunch of winkers.

Ultimately cost will increase though. Whether it is agent margins, contractors rates or more consultants, costs.will.go.up and the perceived tax gained will be lost elsewhere

[seeourbee]

KPMG and the larger consultancies bid for bits of work where they need to put in more than one body at a time.

I don't understand. They are still humans sat at a desk doing work a civil servant could and should be doing .

[DotasScandal]

I don't understand. They are still humans sat at a desk doing work a civil servant could and should be doing .

What you don't understand is how the Big4 get their (Big) contracts. It's a totally different world.

[LondonManc]

Ultimately cost will increase though. Whether it is agent margins, contractors rates or more consultants, costs.will.go.up and the perceived tax gained will be lost elsewhere

Think about it. Government projects are what is being spent on here.

If you're paid £100k over the course of the year as an outside IR35 contractor, you'll see about £75k of that.

You'll see, at a guess, about £12k less inside IR35.

Under this model, any money that isn't taken home by you in either scenario gets back to the tax men somehow. They make an extra £12k a year out of putting you inside IR35. No brainer. They can put your rate up £50 a day, even £100 a day and they'll still not care. More money goes back to central government.

It's the PS departments/team that lose out, but central government doesn't care about that. It's getting extra PAYE out of you and the missing business NICs from the PS department. The departments lose out via both business NICs expense and best contractors walking.

[SueEllen]

I don't understand. They are still humans sat at a desk doing work a civil servant could and should be doing .

Unfortunately it is not on iPlayer any more but you can read this article linky

It gives a clue on how larger consultancies land and expand.

Actually found it on Youtube - linky

[youngguy]

Think about it. Government projects are what is being spent on here.

If you're paid £100k over the course of the year as an outside IR35 contractor, you'll see about £75k of that.

You'll see, at a guess, about £12k less inside IR35.

Under this model, any money that isn't taken home by you in either scenario gets back to the tax men somehow. They make an extra £12k a year out of putting you inside IR35. No brainer. They can put your rate up £50 a day, even £100 a day and they'll still not care. More money goes back to central government.

It's the PS departments/team that lose out, but central government doesn't care about that. It's getting extra PAYE out of you and the missing business NICs from the PS department. The departments lose out via both business NICs expense and best contractors walking.

I agree wholeheartedly.

...and therein lies the problem - they may make 12pa but that assumes no contractor leaves, no agency increases margins to their their extra admin, no project is delayed due to a walkout (cost money or deferring benefit) and no consultancy charging ppl at 2-2.5 cost comes in to fix it.

Very short sighted and makes the workers in Gov (as opposed to policy makers) much harder

[youngguy]

Serious Q (notwithstanding I haven't rad all the docs yet)

What do we know today from the new info that we didn't know yesterday? Has any clarity been provided?