Staying in the same public sector contract after April 2017

[DaveB]

Interestingly we've had a good few determinations 'outside' in respect of NHS clients, so not all doom and gloom there.

Also WTF are the client doing asking for a determination from an agency?

I think what he meant was that the agency have sent the client an email asking for a determination.

[pscont]

Interestingly we've had a good few determinations 'outside' .....

I was told the same by my agency. At least in this beta version of the tool.

Let me ask you the same question I asked them. If one is deemed outside would you keep paying as it is now? I.e. not taxes and NICs deducted from day rate.

[b r]

Not true where I was. In fact quite the opposite. They were too eager to promote unskilled people and train them which kept dragging everything backwards. There desire to promote is why they needed contractors lol.

Based on an NHS trust I worked, yep there is a lot of truth in this - always went for the 'best' person who fitted their 'requirements' - and lots of 5h1t work been done plus a serious lot of legacy crap lying around not done properly then or maintained properly.

[RonBW]

I was told the same by my agency. At least in this beta version of the tool.

Let me ask you the same question I asked them. If one is deemed outside would you keep paying as it is now?

Until the front end and back end of the tool are both in sync and close to the final versions, I'd be wary of accepting anything at the moment.

[NHS1979]

I think what he meant was that the agency have sent the client an email asking for a determination.

Yes exactly, the agency sent an email to the end ps client requesting a determination. Client has no tool, wants me to stay till end of March, will create a perm job and advertise to pick up my work. So all a bit irrelevant. Client asked me if he should fill out - I said not if you want me to stay till end of March!

The other advice I got re winding up my PSC and switching to an umbrella, which means HMRC 'cannot investigate for retro', seems like the advice of a ? Plenty of online posts contradicting this and saying HMRC can investigate a company within 1 year of it closing, and a person within 6 years.

[RonBW]

The other advice I got re winding up my PSC and switching to an umbrella, which means HMRC 'cannot investigate for retro', seems like the advice of a ? Plenty of online posts contradicting this and saying HMRC can investigate a company within 1 year of it closing, and a person within 6 years.

You are correct.

[jamesbrown]

The other advice I got re winding up my PSC and switching to an umbrella, which means HMRC 'cannot investigate for retro', seems like the advice of a ? Plenty of online posts contradicting this and saying HMRC can investigate a company within 1 year of it closing, and a person within 6 years.

Not exactly. The intermediaries legislation applies to intermediaries, and the liability rests with them. There are few circumstances in which either a PAYE or an NIC liability can be passed on to a director of the intermediary. Of course, HMRC can choose to object to closure and they can always open an inquiry later on (i.e. they can investigate and apply for reinstatement) but, absent fraudulent behaviour, they wouldn't find a source of money. Remember that the fundamental point of this legislation is to increase employment for tax purposes without increasing employment. Any retro focus is secondary and will inevitably focus on those that carry on regardless (i.e. move to operating inside IR35 without a change in WP).

[pscont]

By the way, how does HMRC prove/investigates/disprove working practices? Or how does a contractor defend working practices?

[northernladuk]

By the way, how does HMRC prove/investigates/disprove working practices? Or how does a contractor defend working practices?

They speak to the client. Plenty of cases on Google for you to read.

[pscont]

They speak to the client. Plenty of cases on Google for you to read.

Aha, OK.

So the client can say: 'yes, s/he works in the office every day and does that and that. s/he has meetings with our staff and uses our equipment. We present problems to the contractor and want solutions.'
or
'it is all in the contract. no more information to disclose.'

Now, which one is you (most of us) in reality?