Staying in the same public sector contract after April 2017

[Andy Hallett]

Hearing rumours that a few PSec clients are going down the 'brolly only' route and also some big agencies are going to insist the same.

[LondonManc]

Hearing rumours that a few PSec clients are going down the 'brolly only' route and also some big agencies are going to insist the same.

Is there any acceptance that rates will need to rise or are no tulips given about contractor's take home?

[seeourbee]

They will only start to care when they realise they can't find the required skills at the rate in offer. I, for one, and going to thoroughly enjoy watching this storm sink project budgets.

[Andy Hallett]

Is there any acceptance that rates will need to rise or are no tulips given about contractor's take home?

For those where the penny has dropped, they realise that they are going to have to pay more, change working practices or expect less.

[jamesbrown]

change working practices

To what, though, I wonder. Afterall, this was never about the reality of the working practices vis-a-vis IR35, but about what HMRC could get away with in asserting that it's one thing and not the other. They haven't even posted their online tool yet, as I understand it. Which sensible PS client or agent in their right mind would rely on that anyway? And, even if they were inclined to do so, what proportion would be deemed clearly outside? A tiny number. Nah, I doubt there's much scope for changing WP, and they won't have the extra money, at least for BoS contractors. So the requirement to use an umbrella makes sense in that context. Ultimately, a lot of PS projects are about to head down the toilet - if they weren't already - at least until they roll this out to the private sector.

[LondonManc]

For those where the penny has dropped, they realise that they are going to have to pay more, change working practices or expect less.

Thanks for that Andy.

Is there an anticipation that there will be two types of contracts from now on, with defined inside and outside working practices (for specialists versus bum on seaters)?

[eek]

To what, though, I wonder. Afterall, this was never about the reality of the working practices vis-a-vis IR35, but about what HMRC could get away with in asserting that it's one thing and not the other. They haven't even posted their online tool yet, as I understand it. Which sensible PS client or agent in their right mind would rely on that anyway? And, even if they were inclined to do so, what proportion would be deemed clearly outside? A tiny number. Nah, I doubt there's much scope for changing WP, and they won't have the extra money, at least for BoS contractors. So the requirement to use an umbrella makes sense in that context. Ultimately, a lot of PS projects are about to head down the toilet - if they weren't already - at least until they roll this out to the private sector.

The interesting bit from tonight is that HMRC are trying to find workarounds to keep a few core teams together.

The phrase do what I say, not what I do springs to mind...

In other news your typical contractor in the public sector up north does seem to be very very clued up - especially the risk of retrospective demands if in the same role.

[jamesbrown]

The interesting bit from tonight is that HMRC are trying to find workarounds to keep a few core teams together.

Interesting. For really critical people/projects, I wouldn't be surprised to see them find the extra money; afterall, it's a merry-go-round. Whether it's that or workarounds, it definitely can't be the norm.

[Andy Hallett]

Thanks for that Andy.

Is there an anticipation that there will be two types of contracts from now on, with defined inside and outside working practices (for specialists versus bum on seaters)?

We are reviewing our contracts currently.

I suspect we'll branch them to create a new version to best reflect engagements that our PSec client deem outside of IR35.

[youngguy]

For those where the penny has dropped, they realise that they are going to have to pay more, change working practices or expect less.

Is it a straight acceptance that a tax hit of (say) 20pc means rates will go up by 20pc, or does it look like they will go down the consultant route instead?