Staying in the same public sector contract after April 2017

[gables]

• Project Managers -- now paying £163 to £200 per day (was £250 to £300 per day).

Since the PM's I worked with in the NHS were mostly Band 7's (so £32k to 42k) you'd actually be worse off than a perm at those rates once you've factored in PAYE - especially taking into account the generous sick/holiday pay, flexi-time etc that the perms get.

Yep, where I was (local authority) PMs were band 9 32k-37kish

I really can't believe those rates for a PM, where I currently am (PS) we had a first line support guy being paid £170 - not a lot I know, but still a lot less grief than a PM would have.

[BoredBloke]

I will repeat.

There are essential PS projects to complete.
There are not enough in house skills
Contracting is governed by supply and demand

I agree with the part about supply and demand, but when the NHS have a pay cap set way below the market rate, then they are not going top be able to recruit anybody of any quality. The only source of labour at those sort of rates is India and the like

[eek]

I agree with the part about supply and demand, but when the NHS have a pay cap set way below the market rate, then they are not going top be able to recruit anybody of any quality. The only source of labour at those sort of rates is India and the like

You have to remember that the NHS pay cap had nothing to do with IT and was designed to minimise the price of locum nurses and Doctors....

[kingtut]

You have to remember that the NHS pay cap had nothing to do with IT and was designed to minimise the price of locum nurses and Doctors....

Yep, I've been on a decent rate at the NHS, more than recent private sector roles. Shame it's all been ruined

[BoredBloke]

You have to remember that the NHS pay cap had nothing to do with IT and was designed to minimise the price of locum nurses and Doctors....

I appreciate that, but these rates relate to certain roles which are not nurses or doctors.

[eek]

I appreciate that, but these rates relate to certain roles which are not nurses or doctors.

Yep but because people don't want workarounds to exist they apply a global rule to things even though it impacts other departments.

And the issue with the NHS (and all public sector work to be frank) is that IT isn't regarded highly enough for permanent staff to be paid market rates

I think its worth repeating that as most of the attacks we as contractors are seeing are little to do with us we are simply acceptable collateral damage:-

Expenses from umbrella workers - attacked due to abuse by care worker companies and others
VAT rate increase - abuse by small 2-3 worker fake companies (also responsible for us losing the employers NI allowance).
Public Sector IR35 changes - just look at the examples in both the guidance and the consultation.

[DotasScandal]

I think its worth repeating that as most of the attacks we as contractors are seeing are little to do with us we are simply acceptable collateral damage

Correct.
What's missing is why that is.
And the answer is: "contractors would rather take a pounding time and time again than actually resist as an united front".
(IPSE & the like don't count - I think they have demonstrated fully their irrelevance and impotence throughout this sorry "#Unfair35" episode)

[malvolio]

Correct.
What's missing is why that is.
And the answer is: "contractors would rather take a pounding time and time again than actually resist as an united front".
(IPSE & the like don't count - I think they have demonstrated fully their irrelevance and impotence throughout this sorry "#Unfair35" episode)

Bollocks. The more members IPSE have the louder their voice, but they have been leading the fight against these measures. It is, however, a little difficult to fight if the other side is intent on ignoring everything IPSE, ACEAW, REC, APSCo, IoD, FSB and various other minor interest groups are telling them.

The more optimistic (perhaps idealistic is a better word) among us were hoping to see a boost in IPSE membership on the back of this fiasco to strengthen their hand. That it hasn't happened says more about our peers and their apathy over the nature of the change than it does about the various representative groups

[PStanley70]

The more optimistic (perhaps idealistic is a better word) among us were hoping to see a boost in IPSE membership on the back of this fiasco to strengthen their hand.

I gave up on IPSE in 2012; I think they've hurt more than helped in recent years.
TfL has recently written to all 'non permanent labour' contractors stating they will need to move onto PAYE terms, either as sole trader, umbrella, or permies/fixed-term contract. They've left a potential get out for 'essential' staff but clearly dont want the hassle/risk of determining status.

Will be very interesting to see how many roll over and how many jump ship. I'll be jumping if I can't arrange an outside IR35 work-package based contract under the essential staff clause.

[MPwannadecentincome]

Which is why I've been suggesting to people to get out asap since June - notes that some people on here have followed that advice and I'm implementing it in 8 days time.

I have been trying since September, unfortunately only managed to get 1 interview and didn't get that one.... must.... try.... harder....