HMRC enquiries for EBT schemes through SANZAR

[lbeetles]

Hi could someone please PM the templates as i have received a letter for 2010-2011.

Cheers.

<admin note - pm access granted />

[creativity]

2009-10

I also received an investigation into 09-10 year.

I was only an employee of them (sanzzzar) for a very short while during that year so will supply information and get them to recalculate. In respect to information, they requested all loan amounts - but they have this already with the P11D form so why ask for it again? I can supply proof of my PAYE employment elsewhere so that's fine and i have my P60 from Sanzar for that year also. Its just odd why they are asking for loan information when they effectively have it already.

Anyone think its a bad idea supplying the P60 for the 09-10 year?

I guess upon recalculation its my decision to either pay up the relatively small amount or appeal and wait for an outcome. Is there any negatives to paying up in respect to appeals for previous years? i.e. will they see it as 'guilt' and can that be held against me?

I hear people are receiving letters for 10-11 year...but wasn't that the time (Feb 2011) sanzzzar changed to 'another' which took the self employed route? Can HMRC attack that route also?

[MrO666]

I also received an investigation into 09-10 year.

I was only an employee of them (sanzzzar) for a very short while during that year so will supply information and get them to recalculate. In respect to information, they requested all loan amounts - but they have this already with the P11D form so why ask for it again? I can supply proof of my PAYE employment elsewhere so that's fine and i have my P60 from Sanzar for that year also. Its just odd why they are asking for loan information when they effectively have it already.

Anyone think its a bad idea supplying the P60 for the 09-10 year?

I guess upon recalculation its my decision to either pay up the relatively small amount or appeal and wait for an outcome. Is there any negatives to paying up in respect to appeals for previous years? i.e. will they see it as 'guilt' and can that be held against me?

I hear people are receiving letters for 10-11 year...but wasn't that the time (Feb 2011) sanzzzar changed to 'another' which took the self employed route? Can HMRC attack that route also?

Put it this way, don't you think that if HMRC actually HAD your P11D then your assessment would be accurate to the penny........................so why do you think it's not accurate

I would most certainly NOT provide HMRC with this info, as you're in no way legally obliged to provide them with a copy of your P11D. They have already had this and if they have 'misplaced' it then it's their issue not yours.

As for just paying up, if it's really your call. although don't be surprised if you suddenly then find yourself in receipt of HMRC tax inquiries into anything and everything......as you may well be seen as an easy target, and we all know that HMRC are desperate for money right now, even by questionable means it seems.

[creativity]

Thankyou O666.

I find it unbelievable that they lost P11D forms from everyone for all years. But I agree it appears the only scenario to explain their eagerness to request such information.

Anyone else with any thoughts on this?

Also anyone still using these setups are crazy in my opinion!

[MrO666]

Thankyou O666.

I find it unbelievable that they lost P11D forms from everyone for all years. But I agree it appears the only scenario to explain their eagerness to request such information.

Anyone else with any thoughts on this?

I agree, I can't think why they would ask individuals for this information when they are already in receipt of it.......unless they can't find it......which is again another wonderful example of just how inept HMRC truly are.

Like I said, you're call, but I certainly wouldn't be giving them anything unless I was legally obligated to do so.

It's widely acknowledged that HMRC are very underhand in the way they try to get information. It's quite frequent for them to ask individuals for information which they're in no way entitled to, and just to try and frighten people in to paying money which in some cases is not even legally owed.

[malvolio]

Thankyou O666.

I find it unbelievable that they lost P11D forms from everyone for all years. But I agree it appears the only scenario to explain their eagerness to request such information.

Anyone else with any thoughts on this?

Also anyone still using these setups are crazy in my opinion!

Perhaps they want to compare your version of the truth with the one they were given by the scheme provider?

[MrO666]

Perhaps they want to compare your version of the truth with the one they were given by the scheme provider?

A novel idea, but very unlikely I would have thought.

If HMRC truly believed that what the scheme provider told them and what individuals tax returns stated were different, then I believe that then errrs towards tax evasion, and I don't think in that scenario they would be politely asking, they would be opening investigations and not sending assessments.

It will be interesting to see how HMRC proceed with this one if they don't have a clue what the figures are, despite being provided with this information............

[creativity]

Re misplaced the P11D forms: So let's assume this is true - at some point in recent history they will have kept them, so more recent assessments (say from 2011-12) might be a whole lot more accurate....

Talking of 11/12 assessments Sanzzzar stopped trading then and changed to 'another' based on self employment. Will this scheme fall foul to similar assessments as being employed by Sanzar?

[MrO666]

From what I understand any schemes in play (by all providers) were very different in nature post 2012, so at this stage I would be very surprised if HMRC started to look at them.

As it stands they already have nearly 30,000 open assessments for the letters so far, so they are snowed under for years already.

[porrker]

Re misplaced the P11D forms: So let's assume this is true - at some point in recent history they will have kept them, so more recent assessments (say from 2011-12) might be a whole lot more accurate....

Talking of 11/12 assessments Sanzzzar stopped trading then and changed to 'another' based on self employment. Will this scheme fall foul to similar assessments as being employed by Sanzar?

I would worry about finding your contract and loan agreement with Sanzar. My understanding is that HMRC are challenging this scheme because the employment contracts have clauses that mentions the loan agreements. HMRC challenge is that the loan payments form part of your renumeration of employment and are subject to PAYE/NIC.