HMRC enquiries for EBT schemes through SANZAR

[andyc2000]

Just had 09/10 and 10/11 assesmenst land on the door mat yeserday, same assesment as before Miss Sloop beliving Loans are income and asking for Tax.
I had Appeal loged with CM for the 08/09 and aftre emailing Contractorhelp desk I have had no responce, has any one else contacted contractor helpdesk for 09/10 or 10/11

cheers

Hi

Yes I've been in touch with them and they are currently reviewing the details. Will hopefully have a responce in the next few days. Not sure if this will find it's way to CM though...

[turnover]

The vast majority of people who've received assessments won't need to do anything other than appeal. There are far too many people caught up in this for HMRC to deal with it on an individual basis. They'll have a hard enough time just coping with the large number of different promoters.

If it does eventually go to tribunal then there will be a handful of test/lead cases.

This must be causing HMRC the mother of all headaches.

This could be happening as a result of the mauling HMRC received last year during the Public Affairs committee and need to be seen that they are trying to do something which they are becuase as a result of this most people have changed their tax affairs as a result and in turn meaning increased revenue for them.

[z4thras]

This could be happening as a result of the mauling HMRC received last year during the Public Affairs committee and need to be seen that they are trying to do something which they are becuase as a result of this most people have changed their tax affairs as a result and in turn meaning increased revenue for them.

I suspect they will wait till the Ranger EBT case is heard (Jan - March 2014) before they start any further action

[andyc2000]

I suspect they will wait till the Ranger EBT case is heard (Jan - March 2014) before they start any further action

Maybe that's why these have allready been sent out - if anyone pays up now it doesn't matter which way the UTT goes...

[MrO666]

Just had 09/10 and 10/11 assesmenst land on the door mat yeserday, same assesment as before Miss Sloop beliving Loans are income and asking for Tax.
I had Appeal loged with CM for the 08/09 and aftre emailing Contractorhelp desk I have had no responce, has any one else contacted contractor helpdesk for 09/10 or 10/11

cheers

Out of interest were the assessments for 10 and 11 any closer to reality than that of 09, or were they once again magical figures plucked from the fairy tree ?

I guess we're all in line for these assessments now then, just a matter of when we all get them.

So if and it's a big if HMRC loose the appeal over the rangers case, what happens then ? Will HMRC just have to swallow it and drop all of inquiries into EBT's ? I know that whoever looses this case can appeal once more, but if that's HMRC surely the powers that be will have to let it go, otherwise it looks like nothing more than spite and vengeance and nothing to do with the law.

Is there a date scheduled yet for the next tribunal ?

[porrker]

Out of interest were the assessments for 10 and 11 any closer to reality than that of 09, or were they once again magical figures plucked from the fairy tree ?

I guess we're all in line for these assessments now then, just a matter of when we all get them.

So if and it's a big if HMRC loose the appeal over the rangers case, what happens then ? Will HMRC just have to swallow it and drop all of inquiries into EBT's ? I know that whoever looses this case can appeal once more, but if that's HMRC surely the powers that be will have to let it go, otherwise it looks like nothing more than spite and vengeance and nothing to do with the law.

Is there a date scheduled yet for the next tribunal ?

The Rangers case is all to do with contributions into the EBT by Rangers. HMRC are arguing they are pre tax profits as the contacts for the employees stated dates and amounts of the loans which are all indicators to an incorrectly setup EBT. The users (players) have not been challenged to date.

The letters sent to users of contractor schemes are challenging the users under disguised remuneration and not the provider as in the Rangers case.

There is good case law that protects a well setup EBT and it's users. Any scheme with a DOTAS number has already incriminated it self as tax avoidance and hmrc maybe challenging its users on this basis. I'm unaware of any EBT scheme that did not require a DOTAS number having its users challenged.

[MrO666]

The Rangers case is all to do with contributions into the EBT by Rangers. HMRC are arguing they are pre tax profits as the contacts for the employees stated dates and amounts of the loans which are all indicators to an incorrectly setup EBT. The users (players) have not been challenged to date.

The letters sent to users of contractor schemes are challenging the users under disguised remuneration and not the provider as in the Rangers case.

There is good case law that protects a well setup EBT and it's users. Any scheme with a DOTAS number has already incriminated it self as tax avoidance and hmrc maybe challenging its users on this basis. I'm unaware of any EBT scheme that did not require a DOTAS number having its users challenged.

So what's your views on EBT schemes which did have DOTAS numbers, any chance of beating the assessments or is it best to start saving and looking for any expenses possible to offset the liability ?

[MrO666]

I'm assuming that whatever DOTAS scheme a user used, any appeal will stay dormant until HMRC has challenged and either won or lost the case directly relating to that DOTAS scheme..........which could take years.

Is this correct ?

[porrker]

So what's your views on EBT schemes which did have DOTAS numbers, any chance of beating the assessments or is it best to start saving and looking for any expenses possible to offset the liability ?

As an earlier post suggested HMRC will test their arguments against a small number of scheme users first. This could take years and may not be worth the return if as suggested a large number of users have already paid HMRC demands.

The DOTAS number just makes it more difficult to argue that the scheme was not a contrived artificial tax avoidance vehicle. It will be essential that the scheme was setup correctly and your agreements do not state amounts and payment schedules in any way.

Good Luck

[MrO666]

As an earlier post suggested HMRC will test their arguments against a small number of scheme users first. This could take years and may not be worth the return if as suggested a large number of users have already paid HMRC demands.

The DOTAS number just makes it more difficult to argue that the scheme was not a contrived artificial tax avoidance vehicle. It will be essential that the scheme was setup correctly and your agreements do not state amounts and payment schedules in any way.

Good Luck

Being honest I'm not sure what any paperwork I had did or didn't say, like all these things the scheme providers weren't exactly open in the way they worked (i know it was a bad idea ).

No idea how solid Sanzar's schemes were..........although judging by the way they swiftly vanished I suspect they weren't quite that solid !

I was under the impression that not that many people had paid up at all, and that in fact most had appealed ?

So I assume that at some point (months or years), HMRC will either need to challenge the scheme or close down the assessment ? Surely they can't leave it open forever ?