Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[GregRickshaw]

Thanks. How can I find out what the majority are doing? Paying CK or just waiting to see the outcome?

You can pose the question on the portal I guess. I know there is talk of a coming together to discuss what comes next. Remember they (CK) changed their stance in the follow up mails and said no more than 10% from each company, up to you how much you contribute I think...

To be fair to everyone from DK to CK, we all knew there would be a fund raiser at some point, the thing which shocked everyone was the pay 10% demand (of all years and all liabilities) and the timing, when no tribunal was in sight.

If I were still involved I would fully expect to be making a contribution to the fund. If Boox and others join CK there would be no need for more than £1K each (and that gives changes) apparently over 2000 are in the frame so hopefully there will be some coming together soon.

[eek]

You can pose the question on the portal I guess. I know there is talk of a coming together to discuss what comes next. Remember they (CK) changed their stance in the follow up mails and said no more than 10% from each company, up to you how much you contribute I think...

To be fair to everyone from DK to CK, we all knew there would be a fund raiser at some point, the thing which shocked everyone was the pay 10% demand (of all years and all liabilities) and the timing, when no tribunal was in sight.

If I were still involved I would fully expect to be making a contribution to the fund. If Boox and others join CK there would be no need for more than £1K each (and that gives changes) apparently over 2000 are in the frame so hopefully there will be some coming together soon.

The timing makes sense - the earlier you start preparing things the better things will work out - my concern is that you don’t need to cover all your costs now - just first tribunal ones

The rest can wait

[DealorNoDeal]

The timing makes sense - the earlier you start preparing things the better things will work out - my concern is that you don’t need to cover all your costs now - just first tribunal ones

The rest can wait

It would be interesting to know CK's rationale for wanting to get all the funding in place now.

I imagine they'd certainly want to see the case fought all the way. After all, if HMRC can't collect a debt from an MSC, then CK themselves could be on the hook.

[GregRickshaw]

It would be interesting to know CK's rationale for wanting to get all the funding in place now.

I imagine they'd certainly want to see the case fought all the way. After all, if HMRC can't collect a debt from an MSC, then CK themselves could be on the hook.

We don't know exactly the rationale, though Tom has been very candid when asked, and quite humble on the dreadful wording of their original emails. I would say it ties in with eek's statement they are taking care to prepare and brief everything ready for tribunal which they claim (and from I have read here) is the smallest of the costs.

There is hope/talk of a webinar and a coming together with at the very least DK very soon.

From what we hear the fund raising has gone very well so far.

[coxy]

This has me losing sleep. Myself, and I’d image a lot of others are not in the position to be able to pay on account one years liability let alone 4-5. I have not received a demand and I don’t believe my accountancy is currently being investigated, but feel HMRC are simply going to send out these demands to all contractor specialist accountancy firms clients without looking at them too deeply and hoping people just pay up. My potential liability would be the end of me, unless given a very long time to pay back. But I fear I’d never catch up with interest payments.

[GregRickshaw]

This has me losing sleep. Myself, and I’d image a lot of others are not in the position to be able to pay on account one years liability let alone 4-5. I have not received a demand and I don’t believe my accountancy is currently being investigated, but feel HMRC are simply going to send out these demands to all contractor specialist accountancy firms clients without looking at them too deeply and hoping people just pay up. My potential liability would be the end of me, unless given a very long time to pay back. But I fear I’d never catch up with interest payments.

First off HMRC have time bars against these determinations so if you haven't received 17/18 then you're not going to get that one.

It may also help you that CK believe HMRC won't come after 20/21 21/22 etc.,

Ask your accountant if they are being investigated, this is the thing which jars with most of CK clients was they were being investigated in 2015 but chose not to tell us. So ask your accountant as soon as you can.

No one can tell what HMRC will do with the other big accountancy practices or even the smaller ones. All I meant was is they have nothing to lose by trying to capture more, the shoddiness of the original letters will tell you it was a rush job anyway.

Always keep in the back of your mind, should you get your determinations, those determinations are estimates and have not taken into account all the CT and Dividend tax you have paid so the final payment will be much lower (if HMRC don't double tax you).

There's always a way through these things, trust me on this I am someone who had a huge liability from the disaster which was an EBT scheme, you get there. My advice would be don't do something like re-mortgage your house to pay the bill (it may seem a good idea but that brings too much worry).

We are here for you.

[Chevalier]

It may also help you that CK believe HMRC won't come after 20/21 21/22 etc.,

What makes CK believe this??

[DealorNoDeal]

I suppose you could close your company down every couple of years, and start a new one, to limit any potential MSC exposure. (Now that HMRC have revealed that they they're not interested in re-opening companies.)

Although I don't know whether there are any other issues with doing this.

[GregRickshaw]

What makes CK believe this??

HMRC only included 3 years within their investigation is what we were told.

[Chevalier]

HMRC only included 3 years within their investigation is what we were told.

Perhaps “so far…….”

I’m sure HMRC would only stop, if something material had changed with CK, such as no longer having a defined business segment concentrating on Ltd co. Contractors… But I can’t see that.

Are they perhaps being over optimistic??