Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[mogga71]

I too paid the same rate for the years in question and never was not working so my fee stayed the same entirely, it's only in these later years I had a dormant company for a while.

I swear the waiting is the worst

Has there been any indication on how long you will have to wait? I am wondering if HMRC will wait to see how this goes before sending out similar letters to other contractors who are using similar type of accountants.

[GregRickshaw]

Has there been any indication on how long you will have to wait? I am wondering if HMRC will wait to see how this goes before sending out similar letters to other contractors who are using similar type of accountants.

Just educated guess work from the wise ones on here, but five years seems to be the average (for full conclusion).

Who can tell what HMRC are thinking it's in their favour for it to drag on because thousands will have abandoned their LTDs and gone umbrella (which is the aim of this of course).

When HMRC win there will be a tsunami of letters going out, but equally they may start sending them to more next year, the missed the April 5th deadline of any other accountants for 17/18 year but for 18/19 they could add more.

[mogga71]

I think it was eek who suggested that all Accountants should be taking notice of this news .... which I totally agree with. Not sure that is the case though .... this from Contractor weekly today : https://www.contractorweekly.com/con...g-accountants/

List of services (QAccounting):

• Everything managed by your dedicated accountant
• Complete year-end service (accounts prepared and submitted directly to Companies House)
• Salary/dividend planning with support from QAccounting’s tax planner
• VAT returns (quarterly VAT returns completed and submitted)
• Payroll (director payroll, payslips and RTI submissions processed and filed with HMRC)
• Automated bookkeeping and invoicing

This looks very hands-off from the Contractors point of view. Can't see many CK or Boox clients switching over to these guys.

[eek]

I think it was eek who suggested that all Accountants should be taking notice of this news .... which I totally agree with. Not sure that is the case though .... this from Contractor weekly today : https://www.contractorweekly.com/con...g-accountants/

List of services (QAccounting):

• Everything managed by your dedicated accountant
• Complete year-end service (accounts prepared and submitted directly to Companies House)
• Salary/dividend planning with support from QAccounting’s tax planner
• VAT returns (quarterly VAT returns completed and submitted)
• Payroll (director payroll, payslips and RTI submissions processed and filed with HMRC)
• Automated bookkeeping and invoicing

This looks very hands-off from the Contractors point of view. Can't see many CK or Boox clients switching over to these guys.

And the thing is that I have nothing wrong with a lot of those items but it's the way it's being paid for. What you need is something like

• Everything managed by your dedicated accountant - nope
• Complete year-end service (accounts prepared and submitted directly to Companies House) - 1 off fee say £600-800
• Salary/dividend planning with support from QAccounting’s tax planner - 1 off fee if required (say £100 to £200)
• VAT returns (quarterly VAT returns completed and submitted) - £50 a time say (but you can do it in FreeAgent for free)
• Payroll (director payroll, payslips and RTI submissions processed and filed with HMRC) £10 a month (but again you can do it in FreeAgent for Free)
• Automated bookkeeping and invoicing - nope

[Fred Bloggs]

And the thing is that I have nothing wrong with a lot of those items but it's the way it's being paid for. What you need is something like

• Everything managed by your dedicated accountant - nope
• Complete year-end service (accounts prepared and submitted directly to Companies House) - 1 off fee say £600-800
• Salary/dividend planning with support from QAccounting’s tax planner - 1 off fee if required (say £100 to £200)
• VAT returns (quarterly VAT returns completed and submitted) - £50 a time say (but you can do it in FreeAgent for free)
• Payroll (director payroll, payslips and RTI submissions processed and filed with HMRC) £10 a month (but again you can do it in FreeAgent for Free)
• Automated bookkeeping and invoicing - nope

Yes, but with the tools we have now in place, the contractor should absolutely be doing the monthly, quarterly returns for his/her self. Taking responsibility, no valid excuse not to any more. The traditional sausage machine accountant relationship is really now obsolete. Has been for a while really, but Hector just issued the death certificate.

[GregRickshaw]

Yes, but with the tools we have now in place, the contractor should absolutely be doing the monthly, quarterly returns for his/her self. Taking responsibility, no valid excuse not to any more. The traditional sausage machine accountant relationship is really now obsolete. Has been for a while really, but Hector just issued the death certificate.

I don't understand at all what you mean?

My late father paid a book-keeper and accountant his entire life to do his books, yes he could have done them himself but he paid a professional to do it, why can't IT contractors (which I assume you are talking about) do the same.

From what you appear to be saying any company should not have accountants or book-keepers?

Accountants and book-keepers make their living from mobile hairdresser, truck driver, builders etc., why should accountancy and book-keeping vanish?

Does HMRC want this too?

[Fred Bloggs]

I don't understand at all what you mean?

My late father paid a book-keeper and accountant his entire life to do his books, yes he could have done them himself but he paid a professional to do it, why can't IT contractors (which I assume you are talking about) do the same.

From what you appear to be saying any company should not have accountants or book-keepers?

Accountants and book-keepers make their living from mobile hairdresser, truck driver, builders etc., why should accountancy and book-keeping vanish?

Does HMRC want this too?

It's just fine to engage an accountant.

Given the latest developments, the more you do yourself, the safer you are from some unspecified visit by Hector. Myself, I wouldn't consider a monthly subscription plan at any price now.

Last limited company I did entirely DIY from start to end. And whilst that's not for everyone, a middle ground of doing all the routine stuff in FreeAgent or similar and engaging an accountant for the potentially tricky year end stuff looks eminently sensible. It's never been easier.

[GregRickshaw]

It's just fine to engage an accountant.

Given the latest developments, the more you do yourself, the safer you are from some unspecified visit by Hector. Myself, I wouldn't consider a monthly subscription plan at any price now.

Last limited company I did entirely DIY from start to end. And whilst that's not for everyone, a middle ground of doing all the routine stuff in FreeAgent or similar and engaging an accountant for the potentially tricky year end stuff looks eminently sensible. It's never been easier.

Ok gotcha.

I do fear some of these many new tools give the end user a false sense of security, the way they are advertised makes me cringe.

I suspect in about four or five years HMRC will be going after incorrect filing/expenses etc.,

We need professionals though as you say engage them as one off fees.

[Guy Incognito]

I understand that it is safer to "do it yourself" but what if I want some actual advice from a qualified accountant FFS.

You need to build the relationship to work out if the advice is good, so you can start trusting your accountant...

[Fred Bloggs]

I understand that it is safer to "do it yourself" but what if I want some actual advice from a qualified accountant FFS.

You need to build the relationship to work out if the advice is good, so you can start trusting your accountant...

To be perfectly honest, my experience is that you should never trust an accountant.

Always educate yourself so that you can make your own informed decisions on things. Then, if you do ask an accountant, you have a better chance of knowing when they're offering advice that might be correct.

And to be fair, I think that is the right approach to take with just about everything in life, not just accountants.