Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[jamesbrown]

And, remember, they probably have something like 20k clients...

[GregRickshaw]

Exactly James which of course begs the question why CK and Boox and not the others, CK and Boox seem to have around 1000 clients each - so why not go after the bigger whale?

IMHO it's down to workload at Hector, the sending of the letters has been an utter shambles, the letters themselves seem to have cut and paste sections where the fonts barely match etc., it really does look like amateur hour.

Pure speculation on my part of course....

Though having researched as many as I could they truly all look the same to me... hence my comment way back when something is 'off' about all of this.

[Fred Bloggs]

Looks like they have a bespoke portal.

https://sjdaccountancy.com/our-services/sjd-online/

Quite a few accountants do for reasons I have yet to fathom (quite apart from this recent reason).

For a fairly short period just prior to FA becoming well known, in house portals were quite a popular thing, I recall. I never liked or trusted them. I dislike them even more now.

[GregRickshaw]

This right on the front page of SJD

"In addition to having access to SJD Online, as an SJD customer, you’ll always benefit from the experience of a dedicated accountant to help maximise your earnings and manage the various compliance and tax issues contractors’ face every day."

[Fred Bloggs]

This right on the front page of SJD

"In addition to having access to SJD Online, as an SJD customer, you’ll always benefit from the experience of a dedicated accountant to help maximise your earnings and manage the various compliance and tax issues contractors’ face every day."

Yes, but I suspect you will struggle to find any accountant who doesn't say something like that. That's an accountant's job.

It isn't going to make an accountant that specialises in sweet shops or dry cleaners into an MSCP. Is it?

[jamesbrown]

It's pretty clear that, if they succeed with these cases, they will be going after many others. SJD is in a different league w/r to client base, though, so I suppose I can understand why they chose others first, in order to sure up the case law. That said, they could've chosen some more obvious outfits than CK who were literally preparing their client's invoices etc. Who knows, the way HMRC choose cases is probably as much happenstance as wit.

[rdw1970]

I closed my Ltd Co in mid-2018 but in early 2019 noticed the strike-off hadn't been completed. After some toing and froing between Companies House and Hector discovered objections were raised as Boox was being investigated for operating as an MSC. I spoke to Boox and their tone was very much 'don't worry, there is an investigation that our relationship wasn't under the guise of an MSC and your Ltd Co will be closed off as soon as HMRC is satisfied - might just take some time'. How wrong they were.

In 2020\21 the investigation seemed to ground to a halt due to Covid and the team originally working on the case being made redundant. The last update I received from Hector was earlier this year saying the investigation was still ongoing and then I received the letter from them on Friday.

It seems to me this has been rushed through to catch individuals in the 2017\18 tax year. The only positive I can think of (there aren't many) is that due to the time taken to complete this investigation they're now only able to go back 4 years - assuming they don't try to go back further that is. My letter says 06/04/2017 to 05/04/2020
Boox and MSC has clearly been on their radar since at least 2019 though.

[GregRickshaw]

I closed my Ltd Co in mid-2018 but in early 2019 noticed the strike-off hadn't been completed. After some toing and froing between Companies House and Hector discovered objections were raised as Boox was being investigated for operating as an MSC. I spoke to Boox and their tone was very much 'don't worry, there is an investigation that our relationship wasn't under the guise of an MSC and your Ltd Co will be closed off as soon as HMRC is satisfied - might just take some time'. How wrong they were.

In 2020\21 the investigation seemed to ground to a halt due to Covid and the team originally working on the case being made redundant. The last update I received from Hector was earlier this year saying the investigation was still ongoing and then I received the letter from them on Friday.

It seems to me this has been rushed through to catch individuals in the 2017\18 tax year. The only positive I can think of (there aren't many) is that due to the time taken to complete this investigation they're now only able to go back 4 years - assuming they don't try to go back further that is. My letter says 06/04/2017 to 05/04/2020
MSC has clearly been on their radar since at least 2019 though.

We have heard this a lot about Boox clients not being able to close down their company. I haven't seen anything from CK clients about this though

The department change etc., would emphasise my amateur hour and the rushing of the demands (shambolic) and that "time to appeal thing from issued..." thing has synergy with the sharp practices and desperation we saw with the loan recall debacle, they did a similar thing where you had to dispute to get it set aside

Your last point could you expand on please? Your letter has that date range in? Mine (from CK) did not.

Finally to be fair to CK they do seem to be taking this very seriously and are doing their upmost best to be transparent in all dealings and of course not underplaying the seriousness of this situation, which is in contrast to the 'llaissez faire' approach by Boox (according to customers like yourself)

[GregRickshaw]

Yes, but I suspect you will struggle to find any accountant who doesn't say something like that. That's an accountant's job.

It isn't going to make an accountant that specialises in sweet shops or dry cleaners into an MSCP. Is it?

100% can you imagine them saying... we want nothing to do with you and we aren't here to help in anyway...

[rdw1970]

We have heard this a lot about Boox clients not being able to close down their company. I haven't seen anything from CK clients about this though

The department change etc., would emphasise my amateur hour and the rushing of the demands (shambolic) and that "time to appeal thing from issued..." thing has synergy with the sharp practices and desperation we saw with the loan recall debacle, they did a similar thing where you had to dispute to get it set aside

Your last point could you expand on please? Your letter has that date range in? Mine (from CK) did not.

Finally to be fair to CK they do seem to be taking this very seriously and are doing their upmost best to be transparent in all dealings and of course not underplaying the seriousness of this situation, which is in contrast to the 'llaissez faire' approach by Boox (according to customers like yourself)

Covering Letter title says MSC Legislation (Chpt 9 Part 2 Income Tax (Earnings and Pensions) Act 2003 Social Security Contributions (MSC) Regulations 2007.
Period 06/04/2017 to 05/04/2020

It's interesting that CK has been mentioned both directly and indirectly in the Press but not Boox. I've heard nothing from Boox. Mailed them on Friday but no response yet so calling them tomorrow as would like to see their appeal template. Other threads have mentioned they received an email\notification from Boox from both former and current clients.