Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[Viriatus]

Hi All,

I hope someone could help me, after reading this thread didn't see anyone in similar position as me.

I was a Boox client from mid 2015 till June 2019 when I requested and payed them to close my company, I was a consulant in 2015-2016, 2016-2017 tax year period before I went permanent in 2017-2018. However I kep company open just in case perm role didn't pan out at the time, in 2019 June my new company told me I could not be a director in any other company, so I instructed Boox to close my account, paid them in June 2019 for this, In July they confirmed it would take some months for this to happen, after much chasing in September it was confirmed they had submitted closure.

I kept checking CH registry but nothing until October, and in December noticed strike off had been suspended, contacted Boox, email and phone(Someone would call me back, never did) nothing on email till Feb just to confirm, it has been sent to CH for closure but they ignored my point about suspension , I'll skip almost the year of back and forth nonsense till Dec 2020 when they informed me that "It looks like your company closure has been objected to by HMRC due to a potential MSC investigation." and that once it was resolved it would be closed and not to worry. Nothing else for me to do but wait.

Never received a HMRC letter on this, but to this day my company still shows open in CH register, last email from Boox was in August 2021 telling me that "We are hopeful you will go through soon as we have seen others in a similar situation being allowed to proceed to dissolution recently but frustratingly we are not aware of the order in which these dissolutions will take place."

Can I just submit closure for my company with Companies House or do I have to wait for this to be all over?

Thanks
V.

[PurelyBlue]

Can I just submit closure for my company with Companies House or do I have to wait for this to be all over?

It sounds like you're unaffected by the MSC investigation. Presumably you just need to contact HMRC and get them to remove their objection.

[PurelyBlue]

Thanks Greg for the update.

August 14th deadline for CK clients to be chosen. Expect cases to go to tribunal early 2025 optimistically.

If the tribunal is expected in 2025, why is the deadline for choosing clients now?

Boox clients apparently are at a much more advanced stage

It'd be great to know why you think the Boox clients are at a more advanced stage? And if you know when they are expected to be at tribunal? (as a Boox client I remarkably know almost nothing)

And of course, no matter who wins the appeals will drag on for another two to three years.

Isn't that just for the test cases? If HMRC managed to win the test cases then couldn't many other clients then appeal claiming their cases differ from the test cases (which may be true)?

others can confirm whether their Reg 80 determinations appear to be based on the total turnover of the MSC or some other fairy story (as far as they can decipher them)

It looks like it's based on the turnover, but the figures (both NI and income tax) are marginally lower than the amount I calculated.

[GregRickshaw]

Thanks Greg for the update.



If the tribunal is expected in 2025, why is the deadline for choosing clients now?



It'd be great to know why you think the Boox clients are at a more advanced stage? And if you know when they are expected to be at tribunal? (as a Boox client I remarkably know almost nothing)



Isn't that just for the test cases? If HMRC managed to win the test cases then couldn't many other clients then appeal claiming their cases differ from the test cases (which may be true)?



It looks like it's based on the turnover, but the figures (both NI and income tax) are marginally lower than the amount I calculated.

2025 due to availability of judges, courtroom, witnesses, barristers etc.,

Even HMRC can't give one days notice to take a company to court, between CK and HMRC the clients will be chosen to give time for both sides to be ready for defence/prosecution.

You would have to ask your Boox peers there, from what little CK clients know about Boox apparently their cases have already been chosen.

If the test cases win then HMRC will have new legislation and yes may will claim innocence and will want to appeal but it will be much tougher.
If CK lawyers win the HMRC will immediately appeal and then we are back to time and availability again. This will run all the way to SC providing CK have funds to go that far they do seem to have enough to get beyond FTT and UTT but after that mmmm.

Reading your first post though your tax years probably run into the captures just enough, and if you had thought you had closed your company I suspect you haven't filed any returns so HMCR will estimate everything based on your previous returns. As someone said you need to get in touch with HMRC and explain you had zero income during those years.

[gikap]

i calculated that for all years HMRC is after, i took less than 50% out of my company based on yearly turnover. how do i go about making an appeal or explain this to HMRC? is this 50% rule actually enough for HMRC to stop investigation into my company or should i stop hoping?

[SwissSaffa]

Hey all, can someone explain to me how the payment plan works with HMRC.

I heard if you cannot pay your tax they may allow you to pay it off monthly.

Does anyone know how many months or years they let you do this?

They say I owe £59k

[PurelyBlue]

They say I owe £59k

I don't know the answer to your question, but I'm curious to know why you are thinking of paying this, particularly when the actual amounts (that would be owed if MSC legislation applied) have yet to be properly calculated. Or is this just as a payment on account to save on interest?

[SwissSaffa]

I don't know the answer to your question, but I'm curious to know why you are thinking of paying this, particularly when the actual amounts (that would be owed if MSC legislation applied) have yet to be properly calculated. Or is this just as a payment on account to save on interest?

I am just preparing for the worst case scenario but I have attorneys actively fighting it. I am looking for a cheaper apartment to rent so that I can save more.

[woody1]

Does anyone know how many months or years they let you do this?

I think you give them a breakdown of your income & expenditure, and then you agree what you can pay per month. I don't think they'll let you enter an agreement that you can't realistically afford.

I think it's fairly easy to get 3-5 years but I've also heard of people getting 10 or more.

[Snooky]

Hey all, can someone explain to me how the payment plan works with HMRC.

I heard if you cannot pay your tax they may allow you to pay it off monthly.

Does anyone know how many months or years they let you do this?

They say I owe £59k

You can ask for Time To Pay (TTP), you have to provide details of your income and outgoings and a proposal of how much you think you can pay each month. Like any creditor, they'd rather get all their money over a longer period than get none.

One drawback is that the interest continues to be added to the outstanding amount.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/find-out...ay-arrangement