Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[jamesbrown]

Will media interest for loan charge scandal at some point transfer to MSC investigation? #MSCScandal is already making some noise.

Good call. Probably what prompted the Telegraph article above.

[woody1]

It might be worth those affected bringing this (including the Telegraph article) to the attention of the following All Party Parliamentary Group.

Loan Charge and Taxpayer Fairness APPG

Although most of their focus has been on the loan charge, including instigating the recent Parliamentary debate, their remit also covers wider issues of HMRC's unfair treatment of contractors.

[SamRob]

Hello. I am really struggling with this situation. Has anyone just paid what they have asked for?
I just don't know how much longer I can have this hanging over me.

[GregRickshaw]

Hello. I am really struggling with this situation. Has anyone just paid what they have asked for?
I just don't know how much longer I can have this hanging over me.

Hi there, first off there are many of us here (and in other groups away from CUK) who this has affected and we know what you are going through this is a bad situation, but as with all situations there are always ways 'through' them try to stay strong.

I'll answer your question first though.

I would say around 50% have Paid on Account (PoA) which is very different to just paying what they have asked for.

HMRC don't really know what they are asking for at the moment their figures vary massively.

Paying on account is not an admission of the figures , all you (your business) is doing is paying an amount which HMRC 'claim' is owed onto YOUR HRMC account, which will stop any interest occurring when this case is finally sorted, likely to be around 2028 (best estimate).

What I mean about HMRC not really knowing is because they have sent two very different claims to your business one for 'PAYE amounts' and one for NIC amounts.

The PAYE will be virtually wiped out if HMRC win because HMRC will have to give you back all your Corporation Tax and Dividend Tax. The one HMRC are really going for is the NIC payments. So this is the problem no-one knows exactly what the figures are.

There are many good templates to appeal against CT and DT and hopefully you have already appealed the decision, either by yourself or with tax advisors or tax lawyers etc.

If your business has the funds, I would advise doing this as you can then go on with your business and if HMRC win you will not have to find an inflated figure.

Hopefully you will have gathered every tiny bit of evidence you can find to say how you ran your business yourself, this includes everything (proof of bank account setup, proof of knowing the name of your business!, letterheads, invoices, websites, business cards.... the list cannot be too big).

HMRC cannot ignore your evidence, my own case for the first two years were thrown out, because I was more than a one person LTD I ran a full on consultancy. Make sure HMRC are aware of your unique circumstances.

Hang on in there, in worst case scenario, HMRC do grant long TTP agreements, this means you can get your life back, you'd be surprised how you can afford it. I had a long TTP thanks to getting mixed up in DR many years ago.

Talk to your MP, explain the human side of this scandal they (the MPS) will fight your corner.

Stay strong there is help everywhere.

[nekro]

Hi there, first off there are many of us here (and in other groups away from CUK) who this has affected and we know what you are going through this is a bad situation, but as with all situations there are always ways 'through' them try to stay strong.

I'll answer your question first though.

I would say around 50% have Paid on Account (PoA) which is very different to just paying what they have asked for.

HMRC don't really know what they are asking for at the moment their figures vary massively.

Paying on account is not an admission of the figures , all you (your business) is doing is paying an amount which HMRC 'claim' is owed onto YOUR HRMC account, which will stop any interest occurring when this case is finally sorted, likely to be around 2028 (best estimate).

What I mean about HMRC not really knowing is because they have sent two very different claims to your business one for 'PAYE amounts' and one for NIC amounts.

The PAYE will be virtually wiped out if HMRC win because HMRC will have to give you back all your Corporation Tax and Dividend Tax. The one HMRC are really going for is the NIC payments. So this is the problem no-one knows exactly what the figures are.

There are many good templates to appeal against CT and DT and hopefully you have already appealed the decision, either by yourself or with tax advisors or tax lawyers etc.

If your business has the funds, I would advise doing this as you can then go on with your business and if HMRC win you will not have to find an inflated figure.

Hopefully you will have gathered every tiny bit of evidence you can find to say how you ran your business yourself, this includes everything (proof of bank account setup, proof of knowing the name of your business!, letterheads, invoices, websites, business cards.... the list cannot be too big).

HMRC cannot ignore your evidence, my own case for the first two years were thrown out, because I was more than a one person LTD I ran a full on consultancy. Make sure HMRC are aware of your unique circumstances.

Hang on in there, in worst case scenario, HMRC do grant long TTP agreements, this means you can get your life back, you'd be surprised how you can afford it. I had a long TTP thanks to getting mixed up in DR many years ago.

Talk to your MP, explain the human side of this scandal they (the MPS) will fight your corner.

Stay strong there is help everywhere.

Have you had your PoA funds refunded yet?

[praxeologist]

Hello. I am really struggling with this situation. Has anyone just paid what they have asked for?
I just don't know how much longer I can have this hanging over me.

You're not alone. Hang in there. Hopefully you have some robust evidence in your favour. Be prepared however that HMRC have no ethics, mercy, sense of logic or are capable of sensibly dealign with this matter.

I did not pay on account. I estimate it would be hard to get the funds back promptly once they have them after this outrageous extortion attempt is quashed.

HMRC so far want three tax years. I assume that's the case for most of us. In my case the defence is as follows:
- in the first year under consideration I did not receive more than half of the company's revenue as per 1(b) of https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/1/section/61B
- in the latter two years my company wasn't a client of the "MSCP" (I appointed a different accountant and broke any contact with the "MSCP")

HMRC have so far ignored the above evidence (new accountant contract+old accountant disengagement email, bank statements for the 1(b) rule etc) and sent a templated response about waiting for the test cases. I have also compiled extensive evidence of emails, statements, agreements etc of me running my own business as a backup. I fully expect them to raise another set of demands for the following years even though I have had nothing to do with the MSCP for years. To top it all, like others, I've been coerced into a standstill agreement re NICs.

[GregRickshaw]

Have you had your PoA funds refunded yet?

Nope not one penny despite agreements from tax lawyers and HMRC for the amount to be paid back. I have not seen a farthing.

I am not expecting to anymore until the case is closed by which time I'll probably be long dead anyhow.

[GregRickshaw]

You're not alone. Hang in there. Hopefully you have some robust evidence in your favour. Be prepared however that HMRC have no ethics, mercy, sense of logic or are capable of sensibly dealign with this matter.

I did not pay on account. I estimate it would be hard to get the funds back promptly once they have them after this outrageous extortion attempt is quashed.

HMRC so far want three tax years. I assume that's the case for most of us. In my case the defence is as follows:
- in the first year under consideration I did not receive more than half of the company's revenue as per 1(b) of https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/1/section/61B
- in the latter two years my company wasn't a client of the "MSCP" (I appointed a different accountant and broke any contact with the "MSCP")

HMRC have so far ignored the above evidence (new accountant contract+old accountant disengagement email, bank statements for the 1(b) rule etc) and sent a templated response about waiting for the test cases. I have also compiled extensive evidence of emails, statements, agreements etc of me running my own business as a backup. I fully expect them to raise another set of demands for the following years even though I have had nothing to do with the MSCP for years. To top it all, like others, I've been coerced into a standstill agreement re NICs.

FWIW I don't believe either of them are MSCP, CKA are most certainly not.

They threw my first two years out very quickly actually, but as I said in my previous I don't expect to see a farthing of that money. Part of me believes HMRC will find some reason to keep it.

I'm really surprised to hear about the last two years you not even being with the accountant, I saw a lot of those were thrown out in the second wave.

[praxeologist]

I'm really surprised to hear about the last two years you not even being with the accountant, I saw a lot of those were thrown out in the second wave.

We sent a separate email with the documentation to HMRC after the appeal email. They only replied that the appeal was valid and that they'll wait for the test cases, no acknowledgement of the request to vacate. This MSC saga was the final push I needed to leave the UK, I know where I'm not welcome. I suppose I should be thankful

[ritwolf]

FWIW I don't believe either of them are MSCP, CKA are most certainly not.

They threw my first two years out very quickly actually, but as I said in my previous I don't expect to see a farthing of that money. Part of me believes HMRC will find some reason to keep it.

I'm really surprised to hear about the last two years you not even being with the accountant, I saw a lot of those were thrown out in the second wave.

Sorry, I think I'm missing something... why are you expecting a refund? Did you pay first and then 2 of your years were considered not to be affected by HMRC's claim?

Have you chased it with HMRC and they are not even responding to your requests to return the money? Can they even do that and retain your money without any reasonable cause? If it was the other way around they'd burn us with everything they could.