Suggestions for Tax advisors that can help newcomer posters

[Fred Bloggs]

Companies House records show that the claim that the Umbrella was owned and managed by employees is at best entirely misleading. I have seen it suggested elsewhere that it was a cooperative.

But WebberG & Rhys Thomas of WTT each own between 25% & 50% of the shares.

Readers can therefore form their own views on the veracity of their claims.

You don't have to look far to see the cooperative angle. I understand there to be hoops to jump through to be able to make that claim. How that squares with the Ltd Co angle, I have no idea but it is clearly an integral part of the WTT empire, no doubt.

[eek]

Companies House records show that the claim that the Umbrella was owned and managed by employees is at best entirely misleading. I have seen it suggested elsewhere that it was a cooperative.

But WebberG & Rhys Thomas of WTT each own between 25% & 50% of the shares.

Readers can therefore form their own views on the veracity of their claims.

Yep they each own 1 of the 3 voting shares

You don't have to look far to see the cooperative angle. I understand there to be hoops to jump through to be able to make that claim. How that squares with the Ltd Co angle, I have no idea but it is clearly an integral part of the WTT empire, no doubt.

What it definitely doesn't seem to be is the thing it claims to be - Mind you you can see why they aren't member of the FCSA - their accounts are full of red ink.

[Fred Bloggs]

Yep they each own 1 of the 3 voting shares



What it definitely doesn't seem to be is the thing it claims to be - Mind you you can see why they aren't member of the FCSA - their accounts are full of red ink.

Well........ They do claim to be members here.

Co-operatives UK

How that actually works with the claims of being "employee owned" I don't know because clearly the Ltd Co is controlled by WTT management.
I can't be bothered to work out how cooperative status gels with Ltd Co status but the information is out there. I do recommend that before casting any further aspersions in the direction of WTT that everyone gets their facts straight and does not post things that may expose CUK to anything untoward. No - I have no connections to anyone before any accusations are thrown in my direction.

[starstruck]

Well........ They do claim to be members here.

Co-operatives UK

How that actually works with the claims of being "employee owned" I don't know because clearly the Ltd Co is controlled by WTT management.
I can't be bothered to work out how cooperative status gels with Ltd Co status but the information is out there. I do recommend that before casting any further aspersions in the direction of WTT that everyone gets their facts straight and does not post things that may expose CUK to anything untoward. No - I have no connections to anyone before any accusations are thrown in my direction.

I think they are likely "co-op" in name only - more obfuscation - The Contractor Co-operative Limited is a private limited Company THE CONTRACTOR CO-OPERATIVE LIMITED - Overview (free company information from Companies House). Whereas if you pick a case study from that web link you provided such as Suma Wholesale it leads you (via their t&cs to) to a Registered Society (TRIANGLE WHOLEFOODS COLLECTIVE LIMITED - Overview (free company information from Companies House))

[Fred Bloggs]

I think they are likely "co-op" in name only - more obfuscation - The Contractor Co-operative Limited is a private limited Company THE CONTRACTOR CO-OPERATIVE LIMITED - Overview (free company information from Companies House). Whereas if you pick a case study from that web link you provided such as Suma Wholesale it leads you (via their t&cs to) to a Registered Society (TRIANGLE WHOLEFOODS COLLECTIVE LIMITED - Overview (free company information from Companies House))

You have no evidence to support this assertion of obfuscation? Incorporation for a Coop is apparently perfectly normal -

5.1 Choosing to incorporate | Co-operatives UK

[starstruck]

You have no evidence to support this assertion of obfuscation? Incorporation for a Coop is apparently perfectly normal -

5.1 Choosing to incorporate | Co-operatives UK

Sure, am happy to withdraw that. Although I don't see any evidence it is actually a co-op either. Either way the accounts show only 5 employees, including directors and negative shareholder funds, so it doesn't exactly appear to be a raging success story. Contracting via someone else's Ltd company, with a load of other people and getting dividends that someone else controls just seem like an MSC to me, unnecessary complication a quite possibly a recipe for future disaster. Just stick to your own ltd and a reputable umbrella. Lots of accountancies like Gorilla have ways of switching back and forth between Ltd and Umbrella for inside and outside IR35 roles. Really, why would anyone get involved in such a scheme?!

[Fred Bloggs]

Sure, am happy to withdraw that. Although I don't see any evidence it is actually a co-op either. Either way the accounts show only 5 employees, including directors and negative shareholder funds, so it doesn't exactly appear to be a raging success story. Contracting via someone else's Ltd company, with a load of other people and getting dividends that someone else controls just seem like an MSC to me, unnecessary complication a quite possibly a recipe for future disaster. Just stick to your own ltd and a reputable umbrella. Lots of accountancies like Gorilla have ways of switching back and forth between Ltd and Umbrella for inside and outside IR35 roles. Really, why would anyone get involved in such a scheme?!

Good question. I don't fully understand how it works, but there are hoops to jump through in order to be called a coop. That's enough for me to know. I see nothing sinister. More than can be said for the majority of "solutions" that pop up here.

[GregRickshaw]

Recommending tax specialists

Was this still meant to be a post about recommending tax specialists?

Seems to have gone off topic somewhat.

I can highly recommend Gilbert Tax - I hope this helps someone.

[starstruck]

eek as you own the opening post perhaps you could add the list there, to save people having to read through loads of pages:

I believe so far we have:

Cobham Murphy (John Green)
https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...ml#post2837264
https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...ml#post2837409

Gilbert Tax
https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...ml#post2837383

Matt Hall or Gordon Berry
https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...ml#post2837150

[Superfly]

eek as you own the opening post perhaps you could add the list there, to save people having to read through loads of pages:

I believe so far we have:

Cobham Murphy (John Green)
https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...ml#post2837264

Gilbert Tax
https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...ml#post2837383

Matt Hall or Gordon Berry
https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...ml#post2837150

I'm not wholly convinced by Cobham Murphy. The were engaged circa 2012 by Contractor Helpdesk, which was a separate entity created by the same people who flogged the original schemes in the first place, in order to handle the barrage of incoming HMRC enquiries that were being raised en masse from the DOTAS declarations.

Cobham Murphy were happy enough to pocket some of the fighting fund for not much fighting back then. There were no regular updates at all as to how thing were progressing, if at all. People were asked not to even ring Cobham Murphy in order to avoid diverting them away from the important business of building our defence. They didn't end up doing anything to help the cause and people ended up no better off after a few years of being with them. I have no idea what they actually did, if anything at all. I did challenge them at the time but got the usual spiel.

Maybe some people have had a positive experience of using them but I thought the above is worth mentioning.