BIG GROUP

[fielder]

Signed, e-mailed and delivered

[webberg]

Thanks webberg, looks like good stuff!
One question,

"Collecting information and data on ALL schemes used between 1999 and 2011/12 to determine HMRC avenues of attack, defensive strengths and weaknesses and progress to date."

Does this mean BIG GROUP isn't planning on representing scheme users with open investigations for following years?
(Eg 2012/13)
Thanks

Yes and no.

There is a plan and the beginnings of a structure for post 11/12 years.

The issue is information. I have little on the non DOTAS schemes and I suspect HMRC has not much more.

That is risk and opportunity.

If I can gather enough data and present it to HMRC before they have their act together we grab control of the agenda. If however we set off down a promising avenue that through lack of data becomes a dead end, we help nobody.

BG for DOTAS schemes now, and BG#2 for non DOTAS later

[webberg]

I was asked yesterday:

"Will BG be looking to get loans repaid/written off?"

The short answer is yes, probably as part of a wider plan.

This requires legal advice that is included in the fee already and will not be additional (subject to minimum numbers).

HMRC argue that there is no loan for IT purposes but there is for IHT purposes. Again something we will investigate. Be aware however that HMRC has no part to play in having the loans dealt with and suggestions to the contrary are incorrect.

[LetsGoSailing]

BG for DOTAS schemes now, and BG#2 for non DOTAS later

Thanks webberg. Are you effectively recommending non-dotas (post 2012) users do not join BIG GROUP yet, or join but acknowledge that they are not the priority for BG initially and may not actually end up being on the agenda?

If enough of us in this position join and hand over any information we have regarding the schemes in question, would that potentially get us increased focus in BG?

[webberg]

Thanks webberg. Are you effectively recommending non-dotas (post 2012) users do not join BIG GROUP yet, or join but acknowledge that they are not the priority for BG initially and may not actually end up being on the agenda?

If enough of us in this position join and hand over any information we have regarding the schemes in question, would that potentially get us increased focus in BG?

Good question.

Certainly there is a need to push on with non DOTAS and it is something that I am very interested in helping with.

I do have concerns over numbers and data but as you say there are a lot of people out there with such schemes.

I certainly do not have a settled strategy for non DOTAS. Some of the BG elements can be used but others not. In addition a lot of non DOTAS is based in share and option planning. The technical background and case law there is very different from EBT's etc. I do have some experience with those but from some time ago (15 years) and it will take me a while to get back to speed. I'm confident I can do it but I don't want to distract too much from BG just at the moment.

I also don't want to take your money and in 6 months time when you ask "what's happening" and I have to say "not much". That doesn't strike me as doing either of us any favours.

My initial thoughts therefore (which I'll discuss with my business partner when he's back from the Isle of Wight) are that:

1. I'll collect names and contact details of those in non DOTAS schemes
2. I'll collect whatever data is available on the understanding that it's a loan of material
3. I'll give some thought to the themes and analysis
4. At some point probably in the Autumn, I'll publish a proposal for what I'll label BG#2 for now
5. Only if I and you (collectively) think I have something worth paying for will we consider fees

I hope you appreciate that I want to get BG off the ground and moving upward first.

Much as I would welcome your fees, I can't justify taking them at the moment but I probably can in a few months.

[LetsGoSailing]

Thanks webberg, very useful information.

I am certainly keen to join a group like this, once the group is ready to receive us, and I am sure there are quite a few who will be in the same situation.
Speaking only about my scheme (Bedouin ), it was a loan scheme (regular commercial loans I believe), without any mention of shares or options, which hopefully aligns it reasonably closely with other dotas registered loan schemes that BG will be familiar with. (and does also make one wonder how they came to the conclusion that they can be excluded from DOTAS and not receive an SRN, but that is a separate discussion)

[MercladUK]

Good question.

Certainly there is a need to push on with non DOTAS and it is something that I am very interested in helping with.

I do have concerns over numbers and data but as you say there are a lot of people out there with such schemes.

I certainly do not have a settled strategy for non DOTAS. Some of the BG elements can be used but others not. In addition a lot of non DOTAS is based in share and option planning. The technical background and case law there is very different from EBT's etc. I do have some experience with those but from some time ago (15 years) and it will take me a while to get back to speed. I'm confident I can do it but I don't want to distract too much from BG just at the moment.

I also don't want to take your money and in 6 months time when you ask "what's happening" and I have to say "not much". That doesn't strike me as doing either of us any favours.

My initial thoughts therefore (which I'll discuss with my business partner when he's back from the Isle of Wight) are that:

1. I'll collect names and contact details of those in non DOTAS schemes
2. I'll collect whatever data is available on the understanding that it's a loan of material
3. I'll give some thought to the themes and analysis
4. At some point probably in the Autumn, I'll publish a proposal for what I'll label BG#2 for now
5. Only if I and you (collectively) think I have something worth paying for will we consider fees

I hope you appreciate that I want to get BG off the ground and moving upward first.

Much as I would welcome your fees, I can't justify taking them at the moment but I probably can in a few months.

Webberg

This is interesting.

I have a small APN for Sanzar 2008 but my main concern is the potential AML PBT exposure which is non-DOTAS and post 2011.

I think there are quite a lot of people in AML schemes post 2011

[LandRover]

Webberg

This is interesting.

I have a small APN for Sanzar 2008 but my main concern is the potential AML PBT exposure which is non-DOTAS and post 2011.

I think there are quite a lot of people in AML schemes post 2011

In fact many started in DoTAS scheme and for one reason or another continued with their scheme provider under a non-DoTAS scheme. The non-DoTAS scheme I moved onto was PBT, again using loans, and I would guess similar to DoTAS EBTs.

[Tweedle]

......
As a consequence of the above and in an effort to gain expedited momentum BIG GROUP will now be a service offered by me and my company.
.....
This means that the fees can come to my company
WTT Consulting | Tax Enquiry Specialists | London

Go here and follow the links.

Now this may make me the most hated person on this area of the forum, and I may be old and cynical as a result of being hounded for every penny I ever made as a contractor but Admin (cojak?) , don't you even feel a little bit duped??


"Contractor UK terms and conditions for forum use:
....
6. No advertising or marketing of any kind, including non-profit organisations, not even subtle stuff, ever. Please use your company name as a user name to identify yourself when offering unbiased, expert advice only. We will not accept any "hard sell" on your services or products within posts or touting for business via private message (PM). No URLs, contact details or sales spiel on sigs either."

[jamesbrown]

Now this may make me the most hated person on this area of the forum, and I may be old and cynical as a result of being hounded for every penny I ever made as a contractor but Admin (cojak?) , don't you even feel a little bit duped??


"Contractor UK terms and conditions for forum use:
....
6. No advertising or marketing of any kind, including non-profit organisations, not even subtle stuff, ever. Please use your company name as a user name to identify yourself when offering unbiased, expert advice only. We will not accept any "hard sell" on your services or products within posts or touting for business via private message (PM). No URLs, contact details or sales spiel on sigs either."

How so? The OP will have checked with admin before posting.